Russia gets Crimea

[zinfamous]

Just a guess, but I don't think he gives a crap about what the west thinks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/significant-escalation-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine/

Oh really?

but you still think Obama can sway Putin, somehow? Or, at least, blame Obama for "not doing enough."

OK, sure.

 

[senseamp]

you guys are so cute.

please, explain to me, again, how Obama is responsible for Putin doing what he's always wanted to do?

Let them rage. That's what they do.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

you guys are so cute.

please, explain to me, again, how Obama is responsible for Putin doing what he's always wanted to do?

I never said that Obama was responsible for Putin's actions...it appears that you have some relatively serious reading comprehension issues. Seek help.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Oh really?

but you still think Obama can sway Putin, somehow? Or, at least, blame Obama for "not doing enough."

OK, sure.

I never said that I think Obama can sway Putin. In fact, I essentially said the opposite. Your reading comprehension skills are abysmal!

 

[Jaskalas]

We can sway Putin with force.

If Kiev is his target, the west must respond with a military build up. One that could protect Kiev.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We can sway Putin with force.

If Kiev is his target, the west must respond with a military build up. One that could protect Kiev.

Perhaps we should just draw a "red line" so that Putin knows that we're super serious. /s

 

[senseamp]

Perhaps we should just draw a "red line" so that Putin knows that we're super serious. /s

Perhaps you can rage about Obama some more. Then Putin will know you are super serious.

 

[fskimospy]

Just a guess, but I don't think he gives a crap about what the west thinks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/significant-escalation-russian-tanks-enter-ukraine/

Don't be silly, of course he cares. If he didn't he wouldn't be trying to maintain all this deniability for so long.

 

[zinfamous]

I never said that I think Obama can sway Putin. In fact, I essentially said the opposite. Your reading comprehension skills are abysmal!

maybe! But this is a long-running, rather old thread. I can't recall who said exactly what about what in this thread months ago!

...but the Obama golfing meme is just sad, tired, inherently meaningless, and you know it.

(hell, at least he knows the ball goes in the hole. When Dubya took off 5x as many days to "clear brush," he was always doing it at the wrong time of year. which was hilarious.)

 

[werepossum]

We have SWIFT.

As in banking, programming, or Taylor?

Don't be silly, of course he cares. If he didn't he wouldn't be trying to maintain all this deniability for so long.

That's a good point.

 

[Jaskalas]

Perhaps we should just draw a "red line" so that Putin knows that we're super serious. /s

Red lines are taken more seriously with the might of the west standing behind them.

 

[zinfamous]

As in banking, programming, or Taylor?

oooo, not to be outdone by our Bieberpult (as discussed in some earlier thread; the topic eludes me), we can also deploy the Swiftapult. That shit would stop Putin.

Just land her near that border and he will no longer want anything to do with Ukraine. Hell, let's give them a two-fer.

 

[werepossum]

oooo, not to be outdone by our Bieberpult (as discussed in some earlier thread; the topic eludes me), we can also deploy the Swiftapult. That shit would stop Putin.

Just land her near that border and he will no longer want anything to do with Ukraine. Hell, let's give them a two-fer.

Works for me.

 

[norseamd]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-directly-addressed-rebels-ukraine-115427611.html

 

[code65536]

I will say one thing about Putler: when it comes to lying, he has balls.

Comparing Ukraine's actions to that of Nazi Germany:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28985715
(Wait, what?! Who's the one invading countries on the manufacturered pretext of protecting your ethnic ilk?)

Russian soldiers died on "training exercises", apparently. Must be one hell of an accident-prone boot camp. Wait, I thought you said that these people were on vacation?
http://news.yahoo.com/army-wives-urge-russia-come-clean-soldiers-ukraine-185525694.html

And, of course, more blaming of Ukraine. How dare Ukraine defend itself instead of bending over and graciously accepting subjugation!
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-says-russia-ready-respond-aggression-123956691.html

For Putler to use such grotesquely bald-faced lies in this day and age is just mind-boggling.

 

[dainthomas]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...upid-twitter-war-between-russia-and-the-west/

Lol @ "Not Russia"

 

[Fern]

Don't be silly, of course he cares. If he didn't he wouldn't be trying to maintain all this deniability for so long.

That's one possible explanation (he "cares").

Another is providing plausible deniability for for the consumption of others who may be reluctant to act. Such plausible deniability gives the reluctant person cover for his/her reluctance. I've seen this tactic used before; it can be very effective.

Fern

 

[code65536]

That's one possible explanation (he "cares").

Another is providing plausible deniability for for the consumption of others who may be reluctant to act. Such plausible deniability gives the reluctant person cover for his/her reluctance. I've seen this tactic used before; it can be very effective.

Fern

Yes.

If he flat-out admits that he's invading Ukraine, then other "unaligned" countries would be compelled to condemn it--they would have no choice. But my keeping up this thin fiction, it makes it possible for the rest of BRICS to conveniently turn a blind eye and keep doing business as usual.

Frankly, it's appalling how tolerant of Putler the rest of the world is.

 

[Fern]

Oh really?

but you still think Obama can sway Putin, somehow? Or, at least, blame Obama for "not doing enough."

OK, sure.

Yeah, why should Obama be any different than other Presidents?. It comes with the territory. Nobody ever said it was an easy job.

Fern

 

[Jaskalas]

Russian tanks flatten town
EU to threaten more sanctions

Ukraine military spokesman Andriy Lysenko told journalists in Kiev that Russian tanks had entered the small Ukrainian town of Novosvitlivka on the border with Russia and fired on every house.
"We have information that virtually every house has been destroyed,"

What a lovely time in Ukraine / Eastern Europe. How far does Russian invasion spread? Can Putin take whatever he wants by force, is he literally the only player in the region?

One can "hope" he stops at the ethnic line, and does not cross into Western Ukraine, but why would Europe bank in Russia's good will to protect them from invasion? A military mobilization is required to convince Russia not to advance further.

 

[code65536]

Russian tanks flatten town
EU to threaten more sanctions

What a lovely time in Ukraine / Eastern Europe. How far does Russian invasion spread? Can Putin take whatever he wants by force, is he literally the only player in the region?

One can "hope" he stops at the ethnic line, and does not cross into Western Ukraine, but why would Europe bank in Russia's good will to protect them from invasion? A military mobilization is required to convince Russia not to advance further.

As much as I despise Putler and his lies, there are some things from the Ukrainian side that I don't believe, either. Like this one. This is a border town, in a region with a lot of ethnic Russians. Why on earth would Russia flatten a town that, judging from the BBC's reports a couple of days ago, has a substantial number of Russian sympathizers? Unless there's independent confirmation, I'll chalk this up to propaganda from the Ukrainian side.

This story, however, is more damning.

 

[Jaskalas]

Why would Russia attack something in the East? Probably cause it's not 100% ethnically pure... yet.

Russian loyalists will remove Ukrainians from the East.

 

[Jaskalas]

Ukraine troops lose more ground to rebels

Well they didn't stop with Crimea. Do they stop at ethnic Russian lines?

Oh, and if anyone doubts Russian tanks are involved. 1: We've a sat photo of heavy equipment crossing the border, and 2: why would Ukraine military start losing ground now, just as reports of Russia's involvement become clear? Do the math folks.

 

[Sacrilege]

It looks like Putin could very well get what he wants - annexation of eastern Ukraine. Like many things in foreign policy, he can get it simply by having bigger balls than his opponents (the West).

The Russian strategy seems to be to try to provoke Ukraine into a large scale response. The Ukrainian president already hinted that they would respond more heavily "to a full scale invasion" if Russia kept probing. As soon as Ukraine responds beyond a certain threshold, Russia would retaliate in the interests of "protecting ethnic Russians in east Ukraine from a humanitarian crisis." Russia may admit that the situation on the ground is murky. With Ukrainian military forces fighting Ukrainian separatists and civilians in the crossfire, the best hope for stability will be a Russian peacekeeping force to secure the entire area.

Heavy weapon vs heavy weapon, Russia can overmatch Ukraine. Ukraine has dozens of fairly modern military aircraft. Russia has hundreds of more modern planes as well as cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and long range SAMs. Russia could move S-300, S-300V, and S-400 SAM systems right to the Ukraine border and easily cover the air west to Dnepropetrovsk. With local air superiority gained, Russian helicopters and attack aircraft could provide unrestricted air support for their numerically superior ground forces.

NATO's response could be to mass aircraft, SAM systems, and some rapid reaction ground forces in Romania and Poland, but it will not directly engage Russian forces for fear of escalation.

 

[John Connor]

If I were President I wouldn't fear escalation. I'd say you back out now or it's nuke time. :twisted: