Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,536
136
You must have missed the recent Wagner pushes where they throw barely armed prisoners at defensive positions to find the spots where they get shot at the least, then send actual forces there.

This is actual cannon fodder, not 'maybe they'll take ground ' cannon fodder, just 'make the enemy waste ammo ' fodder.

Not at all, and you just repeated what I posted. Current orc fighting tactics/doctrine might present you with semantics to argue, but I assure you these the distinctions on armament don't matter to the Russian command. As a rule they just don't care about losses, and this doesn't just apply to Wagner. Russian troops, not conscripts or criminals, were thrown at a heavily defended Ukrainian fort back in Feb and only had rifles and entrenching tools to use. Not actual cannon fodder, but the result was the same. Going to die? Too bad, still have to do a job.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,618
12,752
146
Not at all, and you just repeated what I posted. Current orc fighting tactics/doctrine might present you with semantics to argue, but I assure you these the distinctions on armament don't matter to the Russian command. As a rule they just don't care about losses, and this doesn't just apply to Wagner. Russian troops, not conscripts or criminals, were thrown at a heavily defended Ukrainian fort back in Feb and only had rifles and entrenching tools to use. Not actual cannon fodder, but the result was the same. Going to die? Too bad, still have to do a job.
Okay... Well... My point still stands that having an idiot shivering in a hole for a week is perfectly fine if he's just intended to run in a direction until he's shot at. Not every warm body being deployed by RU forces are intended to actually accomplish anything useful beyond eating a bullet.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,536
136
Ukraine seems to be having a problem with providing enough training for their new conscripts, they are getting as little as less than a week of training before being sent off to the front (link). Does this mean that the Russians have ground down Ukraine's seasoned military with constant attacks to the point where both sides are sending poorly trained recruits to the war.

And Ukraine is still producing better trained troops than Russia. They also get to use Western hardware, which works. Russia is struggling to find more bullet catchers and sends them in with vintage equipment. Or none. Ukraine has 10 nations training extremely motivated troops, the kind of training we saw have such a profound effect on Russian fortunes last year. Word is they have been dominating it all and making their instructors very proud.

Ukraine has lots of problems, I wouldn't worry too much about this one.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,680
7,178
136
And Ukraine is still producing better trained troops than Russia. They also get to use Western hardware, which works. Russia is struggling to find more bullet catchers and sends them in with vintage equipment. Or none. Ukraine has 10 nations training extremely motivated troops, the kind of training we saw have such a profound effect on Russian fortunes last year. Word is they have been dominating it all and making their instructors very proud.

Ukraine has lots of problems, I wouldn't worry too much about this one.

Agreed. As was previously mentioned elsewhere, those Ukrainian troops are so much more motivated to fight than the Russian ones. Motivation makes their troops fight harder and smarter that goes way beyond their call to duty, something that the Russian troops are lacking. Dying to make Putin happy doesn't compare in the slightest with the UKR troop's mindset of fighting for the very existence of the freedoms they enjoy as a democracy. And with so many of the world's free nations supporting them, it certainly does give the Ukrainians a much added boost to their morale knowing they're not alone in this fight to keep their independence from a ruthless tyrant looking to totally eliminate their existence as a nation.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,536
136
Morale doesn't seem to be an issue does it? We do need to up the ante with AD for them though. I believe their S-300s are almost tapped. There aren't enough IRIS and NASAMS there to fill the holes, already running low on missiles in general. F-16s could really augment things, but they're still far, far away.

Ukraine running out of HIMARS and arty ammo would be a big problem, but I don't think Biden will let that happen.
 
Reactions: trenchfoot

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,859
34,806
136
Morale doesn't seem to be an issue does it? We do need to up the ante with AD for them though. I believe their S-300s are almost tapped. There aren't enough IRIS and NASAMS there to fill the holes, already running low on missiles in general. F-16s could really augment things, but they're still far, far away.

Ukraine running out of HIMARS and arty ammo would be a big problem, but I don't think Biden will let that happen.

The burn rate has likely slowed somewhat. Russia has its own problems building enough missiles. The Buks are also getting the RIM-7 to back up their stocks of ex-soviet missiles. The Russians being wrong about what Ukrainian AD missile stocks are has likely too big of a downside to risk. Airfraimes are really really expensive.

Would be nice to get them at least a few planes that can mount the Meteor (in addition to AMRAAM).
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,536
136
I do enjoy hearing about Russian production issues. Bearings, electronics, just scraping by aren't they. Good. Pilot training, money, politics, if we see F-16s in Ukraine before winter I will be surprised. Nee' shocked. Maybe those others will show up sooner, didn't someone send them Mirages or something?

Ukraine being able to answer Mig31s and the R27/37 stick would be nice though. They lost a lot of brave pilots, deserve that payback. Meteor, AMRAAM, long as the Russian catches it in the ass I'm happy. Meteor is gnarly though, I would very much like to see it's resistance to countermeasures and NEZ numbers tested on Russian invaders. One more system NATO can give the official thumbs up on I bet.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I do enjoy hearing about Russian production issues. Bearings, electronics, just scraping by aren't they. Good. Pilot training, money, politics, if we see F-16s in Ukraine before next winter I will be surprised. Nee' shocked. Maybe those others will show up sooner, didn't someone send them Mirages or something?

Ukraine being able to answer Mig31s and the R27/37 stick would be nice though. They lost a lot of brave pilots, deserve that payback. Meteor, AMRAAM, long as the Russian catches it in the ass I'm happy. Meteor is gnarly though, I would very much like to see it's resistance to countermeasures and NEZ numbers tested on Russian invaders. One more system NATO can give the official thumbs up on I bet.
Unfortunately, it appears that the NATO allies are waiting to see how well the Ukrainian Army performs with the current crop of high spec NATO equipment and training before doling out more. I think if they can make very substantial gains in the south - they will get whatever they need to finish off the job.

Here is an interesting take from former Gen Ben Hodges:
 
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A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,352
3,155
136
Putin was obsessed and mortified at the spectacle of the public beating & death of Muammar Gaddafi. I'm sure the fear that this will be his fate haunts him. Vlad shudders to think this could happen to him. It would surely haunt the dreams of his successor(s).


Vlad's fear that a similar (or worse!) fate could be his explains a great deal about how institutions are structured around him. He's made it all but impossible for the military to rally against him, for instance. I suppose his undoing is apt to be his health, and I think it must be admitted that he has not looked well since at least Feb. 24, 2022 (invasion day). Perhaps it's possible he could be taken out by someone or some faction. IDK.
that is exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that post. although they can be more european and have him quartered with horses.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,839
8,303
136
that is exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that post. although they can be more european and have him quartered with horses.
Horses in Moscow? I suppose it isn't impossible, it would surely be a watershed moment in Russian history, a severe warning for any future power mongers.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,352
3,155
136
Horses in Moscow? I suppose it isn't impossible, it would surely be a watershed moment in Russian history, a severe warning for any future power mongers.
veiled reference to napoleon or the third reich?
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
An interesting read... albeit rather sobering...

Does anyone else need more proof that a land war in Europe was one of the worst conceivable ideas? And that the architect of this war, Mr. Putin, is a murderous psychopath with a Napoleon complex. Terrible for Ukraine, lucky for the rest of Europe that Russia is too weak to expand the conflict.

PSA: thread unroll.
Check out this thread at Thread Reader App.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1650232560918691844.html
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Does anyone else need more proof that a land war in Europe was one of the worst conceivable ideas? And that the architect of this war, Mr. Putin, is a murderous psychopath with a Napoleon complex. Terrible for Ukraine, lucky for the rest of Europe that Russia is too weak to expand the conflict.

PSA: thread unroll.
Check out this thread at Thread Reader App.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1650232560918691844.html
Thanks Ajay.

Painful but needed to be reminded.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,759
980
126
An interesting read... albeit rather sobering...

Putin truly deserves a fitting end - four horses dragging his limbs in four different directions. The insanity of something like this being allowed to happen - probably the only imminent threat Russia could claim is a lost of way of life (i.e, dictatorship) due to people looking over the border and preferring a different way to life their relatives have.
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Putin truly deserves a fitting end - four horses dragging his limbs in four different directions. The insanity of something like this being allowed to happen - probably the only imminent threat Russia could claim is a lost of way of life (i.e, dictatorship) due to people looking over the border and preferring a different way to life their relatives have.
While I wouldn't really wish death on someone, I think the most fitting end for Putin would be radiation poisoning like he's inflicted on others. Taste of his own medicine and all that.
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,410
7,046
136
So the Russkie propaganda outlet has been fired..

Can't say I'll miss him.

Now soon to come.. Trump sucking up to Putin.. live on AIR
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,842
9,088
136
His nightmare scenario seems to be going out like Qaddafi, getting beaten by an angry mob and stabbed repeatedly in the groin ON VIDEO for the world to see that you’re not superhuman—you’re nothing but a sad leaky sack of meat and bones.

So yeah, I’d pick that. But I’d settle for a stumble and a fall out a poorly designed window.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
We need a good old fashioned Qaddafi/Mussolini autocrat beatdown every generation or so to try and keep them in check. Tick tock on the clock Putin....
 
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