Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136
Ukraine looking for more Leopards, Marders, and missiles.

Germany just bought 25 2A4s back from the Swiss and there are another 30 in Spain that are unserviceable but could be reworked.
US/EU should probably look into purchasing the 400 Challenger 1s in Jordan and sending them to Germany for rehab/upgrade. Rheinmetall and KMW said they could do the work.

 
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Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136

Then maybe there's no need for this workaround:


Japan and South Korea's ability to produce large amounts of bulk explosives and propellant probably still needed given current limitations in the US and Europe even if they both start exporting finished shells.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,647
10,507
136
Japan and South Korea's ability to produce large amounts of bulk explosives and propellant probably still needed given current limitations in the US and Europe even if they both start exporting finished shells.
There's a shortage of animal fat, and nitrogen containing chemicals in this country? Basic tech.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136
There's a shortage of animal fat, and nitrogen containing chemicals in this country? Basic tech.

After the Cold War a lot of the conventional munitions industry in the US got killed off or consolidated. We're starting to reverse that but the issue runs the gamut across all kinds of supplies and manufacturing capacity.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,560
7,617
136
After the Cold War a lot of the conventional munitions industry in the US got killed off or consolidated. We're starting to reverse that but the issue runs the gamut across all kinds of supplies and manufacturing capacity.
We never expected to fight a large scale industrial war again. Always figured we'd just throw nuclear weapons instead.
Turns out, when there are still nations who are not protected by MAD, and you don't want to see them wiped off the face of the earth, it's time to fight.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,560
7,617
136
Russians killing those that retreat.
Russian government / military is purposefully designed to inflict maximum casualties, on itself.
We have seen countless examples, time and again, that Putin will kill every last Russian before he admits a mistake.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,711
34,590
136
We never expected to fight a large scale industrial war again. Always figured we'd just throw nuclear weapons instead.
Turns out, when there are still nations who are not protected by MAD, and you don't want to see them wiped off the face of the earth, it's time to fight.

We figured that we'd overpower any opponent quickly due to our amassed arms and air superiority. This generally played out in the Middle East but supplying a 3rd party state the size of Ukraine in a protracted war with essentially the entire Russian military is definitely another animal entirely. Though certainly if we supplied Ukraine with even a small fraction of NATO's air power and longer range munitions there is an argument the war could have been over in their favor by now.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,251
9,319
146
Putin clearly very happy with the performance of his military commander lol

Wow! That's not subtle at all. And lol at the comments:

"Putin does not like Shoigu, he does not like Prigozhin, he does not like Budanov, he does not Zelensky. Is there anyone he likes?"

"Little boys. Kissing them, dressing them in uniforms, importing them from Ukraine."
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,947
38,326
136
Was that lucky 13? It's been a while since I've looked at the general and colonel tally, I've lost count. I think we had one or two false positives there back last fall/winter.

I wonder if it was HIMARS or a Ukrainian system that got him.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,947
38,326
136
Putin clearly very happy with the performance of his military commander lol



Sometimes I still can't believe Shoigu is still alive. That must be a solid friendship given what his sticky fingers and bad info have helped cost Putin and Russia in Ukraine. How long does Putin's patience last? Can't have this guy running off, spilling his guts for asylum.
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,806
4,413
106
Sometimes I still can't believe Shoigu is still alive. That must be a solid friendship given what his sticky fingers and bad info have helped cost Putin and Russia in Ukraine. How long does Putin's patience last? Can't have this guy running off, spilling his guts for asylum.
Shoigu and Putin have worked together since 1991, originally under Yeltsin.

I think alot of the bad info initially provided to Putin was by the FSB.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
Putin probably also knows that there’s not all that many significantly more capable people in the pipeline.

He does have a few generals who seem to have reasonable skills, but they also have limited political acumen so they’ll just get fucked around by the rest.

The Russian system only rewards political acumen, so that’s what it develops. Knowing how much you can steal and who to cut in means more than combined arms.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,802
29,553
146
Sometimes I still can't believe Shoigu is still alive. That must be a solid friendship given what his sticky fingers and bad info have helped cost Putin and Russia in Ukraine. How long does Putin's patience last? Can't have this guy running off, spilling his guts for asylum.

I mean it's Putin's money, really, so what's it matter? I think we underestimate Putin's tolerance for the people that are necessary to merely act as Stewards of Russian wealth for him.

That's literally their only job.
 
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bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
106
Ukraine looking for more Leopards, Marders, and missiles.

Germany just bought 25 2A4s back from the Swiss and there are another 30 in Spain that are unserviceable but could be reworked.
US/EU should probably look into purchasing the 400 Challenger 1s in Jordan and sending them to Germany for rehab/upgrade. Rheinmetall and KMW said they could do the work.

How on earth does a poor country like Jordan have 400 western mbts in the first place.
 
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