Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,867
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According to this article from The Drive (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/enhanced-version-of-russias-ka-52-attack-helicopter-appears), they had about 140 of them before the war, and now they're producing a newer variant, the Ka-52M, with an AESA radar among other improvements.

Most of the Ka-52s were lost when they were flying above Ukrainian-controlled territory. Now they can sit behind their own lines and fire Vikhrs from 8 to almost 12 km away in a wide-open terrain. Pretty much an ideal use case for them. From public info, the Stormer HVM can detect helicopters from 8 km away and engage with Starstreak from 7 km, so it's at a disadvantage against the Ka-52, but they managed to get the drop on them this time.

My worry is that since the Ukrainian counteroffensive began, this is the only case where we have evidence that the Ukrainians managed to shoot down one of them and confirmation from Russian telegram channels, so the effort to kill them may not be going very well.

Kind of like their tanks not all airframes were serviceable or could be put in service with any amount of effort. Most realistic estimates put the functioning fleet around 90 units at the start of the war. I also take Russian production claims with a train car full of salt.

Somebody should phone Boeing about the new Avenger turret which can mount AIM-9.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,771
5,532
136
According to this article from The Drive (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/enhanced-version-of-russias-ka-52-attack-helicopter-appears), they had about 140 of them before the war, and now they're producing a newer variant, the Ka-52M, with an AESA radar among other improvements.

Most of the Ka-52s were lost when they were flying above Ukrainian-controlled territory. Now they can sit behind their own lines and fire Vikhrs from 8 to almost 12 km away in a wide-open terrain. Pretty much an ideal use case for them. From public info, the Stormer HVM can detect helicopters from 8 km away and engage with Starstreak from 7 km, so it's at a disadvantage against the Ka-52, but they managed to get the drop on them this time.

My worry is that since the Ukrainian counteroffensive began, this is the only case where we have evidence that the Ukrainians managed to shoot down one of them and confirmation from Russian telegram channels, so the effort to kill them may not be going very well.
NATO is frantically supplying a counter weapon, but it is not expected to be fielded for a few months.

F-16s with their AESA radars, low altitude capability, and ability to fire long range missiles via link-16 connections will allow one jet to sit back and illuminate targets while another jet to stays low and moves in to take the kill without seeing the target or exposing itself. Things like slow flying helicopters are particularly vulnerable to radars that can pick them out from the clutter.

But even primary Russian fighters are exposed to getting knifed by the f16 they don't see while going after the f16 they do.


edited: kage69 pointed out this is incorrect
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,604
39,930
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I don't know if Ukraine is getting APG-83s with their F-16s, but maybe they are now. You do kinda need AESA if you want to take out cruise missiles or do SAR mapping, and some resistance to Russian jamming would be nice. If nice new SABR was cleared for Ukraine's use I will be pleasantly surprised. Thrilled actually.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,771
5,532
136
I don't know if Ukraine is getting APG-83s with their F-16s, but maybe they are now. You do kinda need AESA if you want to take out cruise missiles or do SAR mapping, and some resistance to Russian jamming would be nice. If nice new SABR was cleared for Ukraine's use I will be pleasantly surprised. Thrilled actually.
seems your right, they are getting the old variant:

they get link16, but the old radar

I wonder how good the old radar is. But if Kiev can get just one or two with new radars, that would be enough to let the old ones be shooters.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,867
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I don't know if Ukraine is getting APG-83s with their F-16s, but maybe they are now. You do kinda need AESA if you want to take out cruise missiles or do SAR mapping, and some resistance to Russian jamming would be nice. If nice new SABR was cleared for Ukraine's use I will be pleasantly surprised. Thrilled actually.

Ukraine will likely receive ex-Dutch and ex-Danish F-16 MLUs. APG-66V2 radars.

They do have Link 16 though and might be able to receive targeting info from the IBCS we gave Ukraine.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,604
39,930
136
seems your right, they are getting the old variant:

they get link16, but the old radar

I wonder how good the old radar is. But if Kiev can get just one or two with new radars, that would be enough to let the old ones be shooters.


Basic, slow, mechanically scanned array stuff for the most part, nothing special range wise. I forget what the track/engage distances were. Nowhere near as reliable or useful as SABR, which is probably an order of magnitude more sensitive, plus way faster and reliable. Older stuff can't be focused into a narrow beams of pain for the opposing arrays either. I think the older stuff has look down capability for weapons targeting but it doesn't do the really accurate mapping war planners enjoy having.

It'll be fine to lob AMRAAM and Mavericks, but drone and cruise missile intercepts will involve guns and eye balls, if anything. LINK16 will definitely help. I want Ukraine to have everything they need, but then I also don't want recovered examples of cutting edge NATO equipment getting carted off to Beijing. Withholding the top shelf stuff here is probably the right call.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,895
7,916
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I assume the capability of modern missiles means Ukrainians will strike with armor, deposit troops in better positions, then withdraw the vehicles to a safer location.
There will no doubt be losses, and the retreat of heavy equipment may lead to Russians claiming victory. But the question will be if the line of control moves south and Ukrainians gain new positions with each assault. If Ukraine can cut the land bridge before exhausting all their resources, manpower and equipment, then I believe their primary goal would be achieved. Only real problem is the delay in having to assault well prepared positions against a peer opponent. Something we ourselves have not faced since WW2.

I say WW2, but that is hardly a fair comparison. Germany was beset on all sides. Allies were ultimately the larger force. Where as Ukraine fights alone against a nation three to five times larger. Our methods have never been used or tested against such a foe and balance of military forces.
 
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Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
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There will no doubt be losses, and the retreat of heavy equipment may lead to Russians claiming victory.
Pretty much, Putin has already stated this:

Putin told reporters, “Very large losses of personnel – over 200 people.”

“Unfortunately, we did not do without losses either, but the difference is colossal – at times, more than 10 times, our [losses] are less than those of the enemy.”

“I want to emphasise that everything that has happened over the past 24 hours is a vivid example of the mass heroism of our soldiers and officers,” Putin added.

per aljazeera.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
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Pretty much, Putin has already stated this:

Putin told reporters, “Very large losses of personnel – over 200 people.”

“Unfortunately, we did not do without losses either, but the difference is colossal – at times, more than 10 times, our [losses] are less than those of the enemy.”

“I want to emphasise that everything that has happened over the past 24 hours is a vivid example of the mass heroism of our soldiers and officers,” Putin added.

per aljazeera.
Freaking Czarist Putin - if his lips are moving he's lying.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,867
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Sounds like KMW may have delivered RCH-155 prototypes to Ukraine. There is an order of 18 units for the AFU thats approved but maybe Ukraine is looking at more and/or wants to build them in country. Either way hard to beat an actual war to work the kinks out of the design before production in a country that is actively using nearly every type of howitzer produced in the last 75 years.

 

APU_Fusion

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2013
1,237
1,796
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I can remember a time when Wagner was moving towards Bakhmut and everyone here said the city had no importance, now that Ukraine is making some gains, it’s now newsworthy





No, I support a peace agreement. Zelensky clearly does not, and has passed a law banning peace negotiations with Russia. Guess he’s perfectly fine sending other peoples children into the Russian meat grinder as long as it’s not his.
The sound of the goalpost movement was so loud I am now deaf. Thanks a lot
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,060
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"It's time to end the era of the Great Distraction."

Can somebody scan the George Will word spew and give me a hint as to what he's on about? Or on?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,137
10,823
136
Russia ‘using disinformation’ to imply Sweden supported Qur’an burnings

In other words, Russia is stoking Islamic flames in a bid to aid their quest at killing Europeans.
Russia has been committing acts of war against us since at least the 2016 election. And they continue to engage the world in ways to assist Russia with committing Genocide.
It is past time for us to directly attack Russia.
Remember when you were little, and behind The Iron Curtain was where all the disinformation came from.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,980
45,168
136
Russia ‘using disinformation’ to imply Sweden supported Qur’an burnings

In other words, Russia is stoking Islamic flames in a bid to aid their quest at killing Europeans.
Russia has been committing acts of war against us since at least the 2016 election. And they continue to engage the world in ways to assist Russia with committing Genocide.
It is past time for us to directly attack Russia.
Look at this nice ad they made for Germany's afd

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,895
7,916
136
Remember when you were little, and behind The Iron Curtain was where all the disinformation came from.
As someone born in the 80s, my experiences of the world are post Iron Curtain.
To me, Russia never existed as an enemy. Merely someone people in the past rivaled with.
Then, in peace time, someone we would have to learn to live with.

That changed in 2014 when Russia invaded Europe.
That died in 2022 when Russia commenced with widespread and systematic Genocide in Europe.
Now that they strike food itself, food for the world supply, I want Russia burned to the ground.
 
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