Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,624
12,757
146
Most likely Putin was hoping for “shock and awe” strategy to force defenders to retreat, making widespread strikes in depth to achieve it. Ukranians would despair that this conflict isn’t just in the east, it’s everywhere. Fearing there’s no safe place for them, they’d agitate for regime change to save themselves. He installs his stooge regime and Putin waits it out to see if Trump gets elected again. I’m struggling to see how this ends with Ukraine being less of a threat to Russian national security after this war than it was before. Putin has erred in his assumptions on how the Ukrainians and the west would respond.

It seems there is a morale problem, a training problem, a leadership problem, and a will-to-fight problem. None of these are factors that can be easily or quickly fixed. The Ukrainian people have overthrown Russian puppet regimes twice in the last twenty years. They’re not going to roll over for another puppet just because he promises to make the trains run on time, especially not after what Russia has done to them now.
The only terms of peace Ukraine should accept from this point is a full withdrawal from all Ukraine territory, including Crimea and Donbas region. I'm actually confident Ukraine could push them out if they want to at this point, Russia's expended too much on a failed invasion to be able to hold them off.
 

Grabo

Senior member
Apr 5, 2005
244
54
101
The Swedish Government just announced it's sending 135K field rations, 5K helmets, 5K Body protection gear and 5K Anti-tank weapons (Pansarskott 86, known as AT4 outside Sweden). This is a substantial part from the stockpile we have.

I am surprised of the act but it shows the gravity of the situation. I think they'll be put to good use though note that the request from the Ukraine specified 2K Robot 57 "MBT LAW" as per Swedish state tele. (I'm not much aware of the difference nor what the national inventory is)

The Iskanders hit an airport,
""This is what's been hit by the Iskanders fired from Belarus at about 17:00... the Russian and Belarusian fascists have targeted Zhytomyr Airport," Anton Herashchenko posted on Telegram." as per the bbc blog.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,552
136
The only terms of peace Ukraine should accept from this point is a full withdrawal from all Ukraine territory, including Crimea and Donbas region. I'm actually confident Ukraine could push them out if they want to at this point, Russia's expended too much on a failed invasion to be able to hold them off.

Didn't they already evac the pro Russian people in Donbas to Russia? Great! They can stay there, problem solved.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,355
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Germany probably has one of the best constitutions to prevent their history to repeat itself.

But let's just say if you decide to elect the Orange Moron once again, I'm actually very much in favor of Europe improving its defense capabilities significantly...
Constitutions are good and all, but at the end of the day, we need to remember that they are just words on paper. Unscrupulous leaders have no problems ignoring the words written down. Many authoritarian governments have constitutions that claim to value human rights and what not.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
For those that don't know the AN-225 was a peaceful large cargo aircraft operated bya Ukrainian airline. Only one was ever built.
It's sad to see it gone, and most recently it proved very useful for relief efforts during the COVID-19 pandemic.
 
Reactions: Muse

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,856
4,974
126
Balls of steel right there. In Iraq that would have gotten the van a mag dump and a grenade or three.

Ukrainians have been wowing me hourly since all this started. I can't wait to visit and spend shit loads of money.

Yeap - wife and I said the same thing. Once this over and things are "Ok" over there, we're heading over.
What an absolutely gorgeous city

 

DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
363
48
91
Anyone see Russia bragging that they've destroyed over a thousand Ukrainian military sites?

All that means is that there will be a ton of money that flows into Ukraine to rebuild their military with modern/more superior tech after Russia inevitably is forced to exit.
 
Reactions: Number1 and cytg111

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
I am surprised of the act but it shows the gravity of the situation. I think they'll be put to good use though note that the request from the Ukraine specified 2K Robot 57 "MBT LAW" as per Swedish state tele. (I'm not much aware of the difference nor what the national inventory is)

It's the NLAW, I wonder why the swedes sent them AT-4s instead, they're much less useful against Russian tanks, tough against lighter armored vehicles they're ok.
 
Reactions: Grabo

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,552
136
Yeap - wife and I said the same thing. Once this over and things are "Ok" over there, we're heading over.
What an absolutely gorgeous city


I fear it won't be as pretty, but no matter. It's the people I want to celebrate.

AT Ukraine meetup! Drinks and peeekles are on me. Zin you should come, we can hit up Turkey and have a bite.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
It's the NLAW, I wonder why the swedes sent them AT-4s instead, they're much less useful against Russian tanks, tough against lighter armored vehicles they're ok.

Sweden and Finland have some reason to be concerned about Russian armour themselves and may need their best weapons.
 
Reactions: kage69

jones377

Senior member
May 2, 2004
451
47
91
Sweden and Finland have some reason to be concerned about Russian armour themselves and may need their best weapons.

Yeah we don't have a lot of NLAW to send. I read somewhere that we only have about 2K in total. Still, AT4 is good enough to take out everything up to and including BMP1/2 and it's VERY easy to use.
 
Reactions: Grabo and kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,552
136
Anyone see Russia bragging that they've destroyed over a thousand Ukrainian military sites?

All that means is that there will be a ton of money that flows into Ukraine to rebuild their military with modern/more superior tech after Russia inevitably is forced to exit.

Nah, rebuild it with oligarch seized money. Let Russia fund the defense against it's own aggression, but yes let it be cutting edge American, Turkish and Israeli toys.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
Yeah we don't have a lot of NLAW to send. I read somewhere that we only have about 2K in total. Still, AT4 is good enough to take out everything up to and including BMP1/2 and it's VERY easy to use.
Wow that's a small number, I didn't expect that. Any talk of defense budget increase?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
Anyone see Russia bragging that they've destroyed over a thousand Ukrainian military sites?

All that means is that there will be a ton of money that flows into Ukraine to rebuild their military with modern/more superior tech after Russia inevitably is forced to exit.

Thats ez though, as I understand it Ukraine knew this would be the gameplan, so they did the old Mr Miyagi trick: Best way to avoid punch is no be there!
Russia should have crushed them halfway day one but regular Ukrainian forces is still fucking combat effective.. Still in the fight.
So let Russia talk about some empty buildings ... while Ukraine standing forces is blowing up their armored shit in the streets.
 
Reactions: Number1

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,092
1,735
136
This is a wakeup call to the west in general that spending 1-1.5% of GDP on the military is insufficient. I lump Canada in there too if we have any intention of assisting our allies in a crisis.

Maybe one thing Trump was actually right about.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,552
136
Yeah we don't have a lot of NLAW to send. I read somewhere that we only have about 2K in total. Still, AT4 is good enough to take out everything up to and including BMP1/2 and it's VERY easy to use.

Ukraine and most of the world are very grateful, I hope my comments didn't imply disrespect wrt AT4. You can still drop a medium tank with them, you just have to shoot it in the ass from a relatively short distance. Ultimately these kinds of lighter, single use big bore weapons will be more useful than the big stuff because more people can use them and tanks to kill will get harder to find.

I don't think I've seen anywhere else where an ally sent MREs. Will really help the people ambushing convoys and keeping MANPAD vigils, they are harder to support than city defenders. I like that Sweden has seemed to focus on the Ukrainian volunteer. The Czechs want to bring the basic tools of an insurgency, the ability to selectively kill from afar as well as 'arm's length transactions.' Great stuff.

I'm just going to have to visit all of our European buds, to give thanks and to stimulate a few economies.
 
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