Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,212
136
He and other elected officials refused to cede power to the military coup that happened in 1991. There he and others blocked Parliament with their bodies and refused to move for Russian tanks. He stood up for democracy in a dangerous time. He should be remembered for that.

Yeah, but he resisted one coup only to immediately stage one himself.



There were in effect two coups in August 1991. The first began on August 18th when Gorbachev was placed under house arrest in his holiday home in Crimea. The heads of the KGB, interior ministry and armed forces, together with Gorbachev’s vice-president, prime minister and a handful of other Communist Party officials, aimed to roll back Gorbachev’s political and economic reforms, and in particular to stop the signing on August 20th of the so-called Union Treaty, transferring considerable power and property from the central authorities to the republics. They declared themselves the ‘State Committee on the State of Emergency’ (with the Russian acronym GKChP) and announced on the morning of August 19th that Gorbachev had resigned for health reasons.

The second ‘coup’ began as soon as the GKChP showed its hand on August 19th. With Gorbachev held incommunicado in Crimea, Boris Yeltsin, the charismatic but erratic president of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (RFSFR) – the largest of the Soviet republics – co-ordinated resistance to first coup, calling publicly for Gorbachev’s return, but was simultaneously the prime mover in the second.

Unlike Gorbachev, elected Soviet president by the Congress of People’s Deputies (the partly-democratic Soviet Parliament), Yeltsin had been elected by a popular vote in June 1991, defeating Gorbachev’s preferred candidate. Yeltsin initially responded to the GKChP coup by demanding “a return to normal constitutional development”, and calling Muscovites onto the streets. But by the time the GKChP was dissolved on August 21st, he had transferred power over the Russian economy and the Soviet security forces on Russian territory to himself, though he had no constitutional or legal power to do so, and had reduced Gorbachev to insignificance. This second coup was the one which counted.


And his subsequent misrule was anything but liberal or democratic. His legacy is Putin.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
That was an Iskander pretty sure. Could have been conventional, thermobaric, or like a 5-10 kiloton mini. No idea from that footage. Whomever was around on the receiving end is probably gone now though, or will be soon.

Please let it not have been a mini nuke. We don't need NATO scrambling and putting their hands on the big stuff because they lack the small stuff.
We'd know within seconds of it was as nuke.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,097
38,653
136
I don't know about the average Russian but I figure Putin would be furious.

He has both his believers, and the people who know they will be punished if they don't deliver. Both comprise the invading group currently trying to take over Ukraine.

A large portion of "Average Russians" seem to be very much against this war, it's not just certain troops and Peskov's daughter.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
This would have been obvious to anyone who has visited the Ukraine in the last 5 years. Maybe it would have been a viable strategy in 2014, but even then, I don't think he would have been able to pacify the western parts, and they would serve as a reservoir or resistance. Those guys were itching for a chance to fight Russia even then. Crimea and Donbass were the exceptions. He couldn't even pull off this stunt in Kharkiv and Odessa in 2014. To try it on whole country now is insane. Would need a million Russian level troops minimum and a long term occupation with corresponding losses from resistance. Russian military should be thinking very hard about taking care of the Putin problem now, before he orders them to commit war crimes on Ukrainian civilians for which even the Russian people won't forgive them.

A possible scenario is that Putin annexes either de facto or de iure the 2 breakaway republics and perhaps some stretch of land connecting them with Crimea, declares victory and returns his troops to the new frontier. It is simply much too early to make any such statements. They really seem to have some serious supply chain issues. The international response is much stronger than many would have guessed, and still gaining momentum. The Russian army has been ordered to fight Ukrainians who are regarded as family and have a similar culture and language. It seems they really do not want to be there. They did not sign up to go and shoot Grandma.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,658
12,781
146
A possible scenario is that Putin annexes either de facto or de iure the 2 breakaway republics and perhaps some stretch of land connecting them with Crimea, declares victory and returns his troops to the new frontier. It is simply much too early to make any such statements. They really seem to have some serious supply chain issues. The international response is much stronger than many would have guessed, and still gaining momentum. The Russian army has been ordered to fight Ukrainians who are regarded as family and have a similar culture and language. It seems they really do not want to be there. They did not sign up to go and shoot Grandma.
At this point I'm not confident Russia can even hold Crimea and Donbas anymore. They stirred up one hell of a hornet's nest and even if they take new territory, they aren't going to hold it. They won't break the Ukrainian spine, so the second they get momentum back, it's going to become a bloodbath for whatever is left over of the invaders.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
That was an Iskander pretty sure. Could have been conventional, thermobaric, or like a 5-10 kiloton mini. No idea from that footage. Whomever was around on the receiving end is probably gone now though, or will be soon.

Please let it not have been a mini nuke. We don't need NATO scrambling and putting their hands on the big stuff because they lack the small stuff.

Cherkasy is home to Azot one of the biggest manufacturers of nitrogen fertilizer in Ukraine Azot (Cherkasy) - Wikipedia

So it could be from that chemical plant.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,576
7,823
136
At this point I'm not confident Russia can even hold Crimea and Donbas anymore. They stirred up one hell of a hornet's nest and even if they take new territory, they aren't going to hold it. They won't break the Ukrainian spine, so the second they get momentum back, it's going to become a bloodbath for whatever is left over of the invaders.

Yeah highly possible. Moscow has called for talks. Zelinsky has agreed and also stated surrender is off the table. Let's see what comes of it.
 
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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,544
3,471
136
Anyone see the page to donate to Ukraine’s military?


I got married last weekend and we chose to do a charity donation in lieu of favors. It was going to go to WWF or similar wildlife fund but it’s going to them instead. No better wedding gift than the unexpected end of Putin’s regime if it comes to that.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,097
38,653
136
There is a 3 mile long convoy slowly heading West to Kyiv. All on one road. I imagine the drones are going to pound the absolute piss out of those guys. Plus the woods on either side are teeming with rifles, RPGs and missiles.

Highway of Death Ukrainian version, loading...please wait
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,852
8,313
136
Still makes me nervous when the Germans talk about building up their military.
Yeah, hard to forget what happened last time... that's the reason they eschewed building up their military since. The holocaust casts an indefinite shadow.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,594
7,653
136
Be a shame if NATO had some AA on the ground, ready to fire at Belarus crossing the border.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,594
7,653
136
With Russia cutting off routes and supply lines, it is only a matter of time before major Ukrainian cities need food and water. Let alone combat supplies.
44 million people under siege. In need of basic humanitarian supplies.
They could use an assist to clear the path and send the Russia army straight back to hell.
 
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