Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

Page 1440 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,226
9,283
146
One of the problems I foresee could happen is that slowly but inevitably the Russians will improve their tactics and material. Putin is in this until the bitter end, so it will be glide bombs, meat and arty while steadily improving their own drone game. Russia is just bigger. They will bleed Ukraine of fighting age men and women. Putin will never accept defeat. Our sanctions are porous. Much of the rest of the world will be happy to stealth play both sides. Putin will make sure to keep the "elite" in Moscow and St. Pete insulated from the misery. That burden will fall on the rest of Russia, and they have been conditioned over centuries to accept it.

So, this is my nightmare scenario. And the quisling-driven Republican party doesn't give a damn.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Yep. And the Russian assets do what they can.

Mike Turner, the Chairperson of the US House Intelligence Committee, accused his own party members of repeating Russian propaganda on the House floor. He's not alone either.

"Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it’s infected a good chunk of my party’s base,” - Michael McCaul (R), Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee



Russia and Putin are victims. Don't let this be democracy vs. fascist dictatorship. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Two of the most corrupt governments in the world are Russia and Ukraine. Few people dispute that. One does not have to be a fan of Putin to want a negotiated treaty. One does not have to be fan of Putin to recognize the existential threat to America his nuclear arsenal represents.

GW Bush was the final straw for me. After he lied us into war against Iraq, my worldview completely changed. I now radically oppose any American military intervention in the affairs of other nations... be that Israel, Ukraine or Taiwan. I am tired to the puke point of morally corrupt politicians who would never risk their own lives or the lives of their loved ones gleefully sacrificing the lives of the little people. The world would be a much better place if only the elites and their families fought the wars and left the rest of us the hell alone.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,639
34,461
136
One of the problems I foresee could happen is that slowly but inevitably the Russians will improve their tactics and material. Putin is in this until the bitter end, so it will be glide bombs, meat and arty while steadily improving their own drone game. Russia is just bigger. They will bleed Ukraine of fighting age men and women. Putin will never accept defeat. Our sanctions are porous. Much of the rest of the world will be happy to stealth play both sides. Putin will make sure to keep the "elite" in Moscow and St. Pete insulated from the misery. That burden will fall on the rest of Russia, and they have been conditioned over centuries to accept it.

So, this is my nightmare scenario. And the quisling-driven Republican party doesn't give a damn.

Euros seem to have a better handle on the shell issue for now. Per Ukrainian sources it's gone from "critical" to "mostly ok for now". New supplies from the Czech initiative are due over the coming months which will likely coincide with even crazier Russian pushes.

Air defense is probably the number one priority right now. They need more of it in basically every category and especially SHORAD to project valuable units.
 
Reactions: Roger Wilco

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,683
5,419
136
Two of the most corrupt governments in the world are Russia and Ukraine. Few people dispute that.
I am going to call you out on a false equivalent logical fallacy.



Ukraine is corrupt, but is it as bad as the USA?

As you point out yourself, in the USA leaders openly lie about the reasons to go to war.


Can you really call Ukraine corruption out when it is less corrupt then your own nation?
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
I am going to call you out on a false equivalent logical fallacy.



Ukraine is corrupt, but is it as bad as the USA?

As you point out yourself, in the USA leaders openly lie about the reasons to go to war.


Can you really call Ukraine corruption out when it is less corrupt then your own nation?

Agree with you at least partially. The only President in my lifetime that I don't consider corrupt was Carter. The problem with Democracy is that sociopathic narcissists out for their own power and wealth seem to reliably rise to the top. Carter appears to be the exception that proves the rule. Carter may have been corrupt as well, I just haven't seen evidence for it.

That being said, America has not yet reached the point where it is killing off their political opponents like Putin is. I think this makes our government less corrupt than Russias.

My information is that Zelensky is jailing political opponents and calling off elections. I think this makes Ukraine more corrupt than America. Also wikipedia sources indicate Ukraine has consistently been one of the most if not most corrupt nation in the world.

 
Reactions: feralkid

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,639
34,461
136
Two of the most corrupt governments in the world are Russia and Ukraine. Few people dispute that. One does not have to be a fan of Putin to want a negotiated treaty. One does not have to be fan of Putin to recognize the existential threat to America his nuclear arsenal represents.

GW Bush was the final straw for me. After he lied us into war against Iraq, my worldview completely changed. I now radically oppose any American military intervention in the affairs of other nations... be that Israel, Ukraine or Taiwan. I am tired to the puke point of morally corrupt politicians who would never risk their own lives or the lives of their loved ones gleefully sacrificing the lives of the little people. The world would be a much better place if only the elites and their families fought the wars and left the rest of us the hell alone.

Ukraine has made substantial improvements since 2014 but there is certainly farther to go. Comparing it to Russia at this point probably isn't fair. Steps to integrate with Europe and eventually join the EU should keep this process going.

On the topic of negotiated settlements it is near impossible to make one with Putin alone because he's broken every agreement ever made concerning Ukraine and will of certainly do so again when convenient. Which is why the Ukrainians don't view this as a realistic option unless he is prepared to make some major security concessions.
 

balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
6,386
2,818
136
Agree with you at least partially. The only President in my lifetime that I don't consider corrupt was Carter. The problem with Democracy is that sociopathic narcissists out for their own power and wealth seem to reliably rise to the top. Carter appears to be the exception that proves the rule. Carter may have been corrupt as well, I just haven't seen evidence for it.

That being said, America has not yet reached the point where it is killing off their political opponents like Putin is. I think this makes our government less corrupt than Russias.

My information is that Zelensky is jailing political opponents and calling off elections. I think this makes Ukraine more corrupt than America. Also wikipedia sources indicate Ukraine has consistently been one of the most if not most corrupt nation in the world.

Ukraine has to fight corruption in order to join the EU. It's like one of the last steps they must complete before they can join. (K1052 beat me to it.)

IMHO If other countries are sending billions of dollars in equipment and aid to Ukraine I don't think it would be proper for them to spend money to hold an election right now. All efforts should be spent on ridding their country of the orcs who are hell-bent on ending their democracy.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: feralkid and Leeea

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
The question is how many of those are missiles versus tactical nuclear weapons to be delivered via artillery to dropped by a aircraft? Does Russia even have enough working delivery systems to place them onto the targets that it wants around the world?

Then we have to consider how much the west should take into account Russia's nuclear blackmail to allow Russia to get it's way in Ukraine? This entire war in Ukraine is over Russia's expansion of it's borders after 2014.

"Strong men" like their tippy-top shiny toys. You can be assured if anything works correctly in Russia, it's probably at least some of their nukes and pertinent delivery systems. This is my worthless opinion, anyway. I don't think I'm likely to be incorrect, however. Does the USA and Russia not have subs cruising around the globe? Hell, we've had their subs near the east coast.

Here's an article detailing what we presume Russia's current nuclear armament to be. It's also reported that Russia has increased submarine activity in the Atlantic.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
There is too much going on and much of it is hard to trust. The media is spreading too much propaganda and this is leading people to make false conclusions. We shall see a few examples of this.

Remember the Ghost of Kiev? About this marvelous, almost superhero fighter pilot of Ukrainian air force who is shooting down so many Russian jets? Well, this is a media propaganda.

These Ukrainian drone attacks on Russia, which people claim are so successful, well they actually don't achieve as much success as the US would like you to believe. First of all, realize these drones are flying in at very low altitude to escape radar, etc. And yet, Russia is still able to shoot down many of them. Second, the success of these drones is very much overstated because they are not accomplishing too much. It is in fact making the Russian people become more fans of Putin, thus making his war efforts stronger. This is not changing the results on the battlefields, because as I have posted before, the massive front is under attack from so many angles that Ukraine does not know what to do.

Let us continue with these drone attacks by Ukraine, with likely help of their American masters. I will link and show a few different sources here, and one of them pro-Ukraine. This way both sides can be shown.

Ok, this is a supposedly pro-Russia account making details of the recent drone attacks:

"On the massive Ukrainian drone attack on Russian airfields

During the night, the AFU launched drones into Russian territory.

The primary target was the Morozovsk airfield in the Rostov region, where Ukrainian forces dispatched 44 drones. The exact type remains unknown and will be determined upon analyzing the debris. However, there is a high likelihood that these are the same UAVs that the enemy has been utilizing in recent weeks.Out of these, 26 drones were intercepted by Pantsir-S1 air defense missile systems, and 18 by rifle squads. Based on the videos circulating online, it is evident that the drones were flying at an extremely low altitude, enhancing the level of stealth.There was no significant damage to the infrastructure. The debris hit a few buildings. Additionally, the substation suffered damage, resulting in a temporary power outage.

Simultaneously, the enemy also targeted the airfield in Yeysk, where local air defense units neutralized ten UAVs. All of them crashed off the coast of the Sea of Azov and seemingly originated from the Zaporizhzhia/Dnipro region.

At least one more UAV from the AFU was struck while approaching the strategic aviation airfield in Engels. The reason for the presence of only one drone is unclear. There might have been more UAVs heading in that direction, but they were possibly intercepted over Yeysk and Morozovsk.

Thanks to the swift response of the air defense crews, any severe repercussions from the attacks were averted - claims from Ukrainian sources about the alleged destruction of six aircraft are fakes coming from enemy propagandists. However, the recent attacks highlight the enhanced capability of the enemy to strike targets beyond the front line.This once again emphasizes the importance of countermeasures (rifle detachments have consistently proven their usefulness) and the necessity for safeguarding aviation at bases. The infamous hangars, frequently discussed, continue to pose challenges in terms of implementation.



Now, let us turn to a pro-Ukraine source which also reports similar results:

ISW has yet to find any visual evidence that Ukrainian forces have damaged or destroyed aircraft or infrastructure at any of the four Russian airbases targeted by drones on the night of 4-5 April.

This is from Ukrainska Pravda, clearly a pro-Ukraine source. They are using the assessment of ISW - Institution For the Study Of War, that is little damage to Russian airbases, etc.


Here is another source saying similar things:

Morozovsk Air Base, which is home to dozens of tactical jets, namely Su-34 Fullback fighter-bombers, came under a large-scale Ukrainian drone attack two evenings ago. You can read our previous reporting on the attack here. A flurry of subsequent claims of destruction followed, with outlets reporting multiple aircraft destroyed and a high price in life and other property lost. Meanwhile, Russian sources, including officials, said the drone attack was rebuffed by air defenses. We now have high-resolution satellite imagery to check those claims.

While there are real limits to the amount of information commercially available satellite images can provide, we see no major impacts on the installation. Another image taken later today shows aircraft taxiing and one landing on the runway. Regardless, we must underline that there still could be damage, including to aircraft. Shrapnel effects and other small damage, which can still be catastrophic to aircraft and equipment, simply do not show up in satellite imagery, although subsequent fires and destruction could. So, this does not mean no damage occurred or the attack was outright unsuccessful, but this is what we can see with the imagery available.

Morozovsk Air Base is a prime target for Ukraine, due to the high-value of the aircraft based there, their relevance to the conflict, and its close proximity to Ukrainian territory. Russia knows this and, in general, has bolstered its air defenses at high-risk bases near Ukraine as the drone campaign against such targets has expanded.

Just because the attack on Morozovsk doesn't appear to have been highly successful this time, doesn't mean that will be the case in future attacks, should they occur. Ukraine's long-range kamikaze drone capabilities are expanding at a bewildering pace with each passing day.

For now, it looks like Morozovsk made it out largely unscathed.



I will be putting up pictures in separate post.

So this is to conclude that the drone strikes achieved little or none. Do not rush to conclusions because certain outlets or certain governments want you to believe them.
 
Last edited:

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Here are some before and after pictures of Russian airbase, little damage.

Before the Ukrainian drone attack:






This is after the drone attack:




So based on this, little or maybe miniscule damage. Not the wild inflated damage that the media reports. So this is another way to show that these drone attacks are given too much importance while the battlefield conditions for Ukraine get worse. Even Ukrainska Pravda is saying this by providing the ISW article, I linked above.
 
Reactions: Young Grasshopper

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,639
34,461
136
Airbases are defended by EW and missiles/guns so they are not optimal targets for drones. That the raid had limited effect is not a huge surprise.

More worrying for the Russians is that Ukraine could mass so many at once because there are a lot of targets (ahem like refineries) that are not defended nearly so well.
 
Reactions: Leeea

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
So it is appearing that many outlets are finally realizing that Ukraine is having a very hard time and they have to let their audience know. Maybe the West is slowly letting people realize Ukraine is having a hard time? I am only showing part of this article but given the author is Western, he seems reasonable. He is acknowledging the West's weakness and Ukraine's very difficult tasks.

The Looming Ukraine Debacle​


There is indeed a serious risk that, rather than the West teaching Russia a lesson and putting Putin in his place, the opposite may occur.

About two years ago, it became clear that Russia’s Plan A in Ukraine failed. Putin’s initial approach was a sudden movement of troops into Ukraine that, in the best case, could topple Ukraine’s government or, at least, coerce Kyiv into signing a new and less favorable version of the Minsk II agreement. Russia’s Plan A was resisted by the Zelenskyy government, whose military forces held firm on the outskirts of Kyiv in March 2022. After the collapse of the Istanbul peace negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow in April, Russia shifted to Plan B: waging a grinding war of attrition to exhaust Kyiv’s will and capacity to resist while testing the Western alliance’s collective ability to sustain Ukraine.

Russia’s Plan B had mixed results in 2022. While Russia won important, if costly, victories in Mariupol and Severodonetsk, Ukraine exploited Russia’s lack of manpower to win back territory in the Kharkiv and Kherson regions. However, following a partial military and economic mobilization, Russia turned the corner, defeating Ukraine’s offensive in 2023 and taking the upper hand in 2024.

As the slow success of Russia’s Plan B becomes more apparent, the failure of the West’s own Plan A to deal with Russia is now clarified. This plan consisted of sanctions to derail the Russian economy, diplomacy to isolate the Putin regime, and the use of NATO weapons and know-how to inflict serious damage on Russia on the battlefield. The optimal outcome would be Russia’s humiliation and withdrawal from Ukraine. But experts assured us that whatever happened, Russia would be seriously weakened and put in its place. This, however, is not what has materialized.

The other set of assumptions was military in nature. Russia’s failed use of hard power in the first two months of its “Special Military Operation” was taken as an indicator of gross military incompetence. Claims of high Russian causalities and equipment losses were linked to corruption, poor morale, and disorganization. Most commentators and reporters have accepted at face value the Ukrainian, U.S., and UK estimates of Russian losses, as well as the equipment loss count of the open-source intelligence unit “Oryx.” The claims of astronomical Russian losses reinforced the long-standing assumption of NATO military superiority over Russia, creating a remarkable war optimism in the West. Ukraine would now use higher caliber Western weapons, tactics, and training to defeat Russia comprehensively. NATO’s game-changing wonder weapons were kept on the sidelines and could be introduced when Ukraine needed decisive assistance.

These military assumptions have now been proven incorrect. The drip-feeding of advanced weaponry, calibrated to avoid crossing Russian redlines too flagrantly, did not allow the Ukrainians to achieve decisive success in 2023. While access to NATO intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance systems has given Ukraine a crucial advantage in battlefield targeting, NATO training, equipment, and planning proved unsuitable for Ukraine’s 2023 offensive. NATO countries have not provided consistent types of weaponry or kept up with the basic needs of munitions production or procurement into 2024. Overall, NATO was not well prepared for the war in Ukraine; its military doctrines foresaw interventions in civil wars or conflict with weaker opponents, not a proxy war of attrition with a peer competitor.

In contrast, Russia was better prepared for the long haul of military production and has also successfully innovated in response to the military setbacks it has experienced. The Russian military has adapted to conditions of near total battlefield visibility, the mass use of drones, and the vastly reduced power of tanks and aircraft. This includes innovative infantry assault tactics, new methods of using and countering drones, and, more recently, the devastating use of glide bombs that allow Russian air power to be used while evading anti-aircraft fire. On the tactical and operational level, Russia is engaging many parts of the front simultaneously, forcing Ukraine into an exhausting and constant redeployment of troops. Presenting Russian military successes as “human wave” or “meat assaults” is clearly inaccurate. Russia’s approach is gradual, attritional, and anything but mindless.

Given these dynamics, widespread talk of a Ukrainian victory has been replaced by the specter of defeat if the West cannot deliver the needed weapons and supplies. Yet, even if the shells arrive in time, Ukraine also has a manpower problem that is much harder to solve. The Ukrainian government’s deep reluctance to issue another mobilization may reflect a fear of popular discontent and doubts over the state’s capacity to deliver the required number of men.

Despite all the above indicators, many in the West want to continue Plan A: more sanctions on Russia, new weapons, and more training for Ukraine, all to somehow prepare Ukraine to launch another offensive in 2025. Yet it remains unclear how Ukraine can survive 2024 if Russia is outproducing the West by more than three-to-one in shells and has more troops at its disposal. Something has to give in the next phase of the war.

The current rather desperate effort to scrape together munitions to ensure Ukraine’s immediate survival does not constitute a Plan B for the West in Ukraine. A definition of “victory” is still lacking. It is unclear what prerequisites must be in place for “honorable” negotiations with Russia. The Western alliance’s Plan B must be a choice between rapidly developing an effective means of doubling down its support for Ukraine or starting to talk about a compromise with Russia.

Macron’s variant of a Western “double-down” in Ukraine looks unconvincing. Talk of NATO troop deployment is not a serious threat to Russia’s military dominance. More likely, it represents a signal of Western commitment intended to bolster Ukrainian morale at a crucial time, as well as ensure that, in case of a debacle, Macron himself cannot be accused of having been silent. But in real terms, what could 2,000 French troops do in Ukraine to change the military balance? Surely, it would be nothing more than a stopgap, but one with risks of further debacle, given that a NATO contingent in Ukraine would not be protected by Article 5 and would most likely be “fair game” for Russian missiles and drones.


I would not describe National Interest as pro-Russia at all so this is a big story.

And now NATO chief is admitting that Ukraine "may have to compromise."

What does this mean? It means that because of failed policies, Ukraine will have to negotiate with Russia and Russia has upper hand right now. Please watch this video:


This sort of language is different from we have heard before. This might be related to reality of Ukraine's difficulty due to lack of manpower, industrial base, bad economy, etc. So negotiations are being talked about again.
 
Last edited:

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,815
13,725
146
There is too much going on and much of it is hard to trust. The media is spreading too much propaganda and this is leading people to make false conclusions. We shall see a few examples of this.

Remember the Ghost of Kiev? About this marvelous, almost superhero fighter pilot of Ukrainian air force who is shooting down so many Russian jets? Well, this is a media propaganda.

These Ukrainian drone attacks on Russia, which people claim are so successful, well they actually don't achieve as much success as the US would like you to believe. First of all, realize these drones are flying in at very low altitude to escape radar, etc. And yet, Russia is still able to shoot down many of them. Second, the success of these drones is very much overstated because they are not accomplishing too much. It is in fact making the Russian people become more fans of Putin, thus making his war efforts stronger. This is not changing the results on the battlefields, because as I have posted before, the massive front is under attack from so many angles that Ukraine does not know what to do.

Let us continue with these drone attacks by Ukraine, with likely help of their American masters. I will link and show a few different sources here, and one of them pro-Ukraine. This way both sides can be shown.

Ok, this is a supposedly pro-Russia account making details of the recent drone attacks:

"On the massive Ukrainian drone attack on Russian airfields

During the night, the AFU launched drones into Russian territory.

The primary target was the Morozovsk airfield in the Rostov region, where Ukrainian forces dispatched 44 drones. The exact type remains unknown and will be determined upon analyzing the debris. However, there is a high likelihood that these are the same UAVs that the enemy has been utilizing in recent weeks.Out of these, 26 drones were intercepted by Pantsir-S1 air defense missile systems, and 18 by rifle squads. Based on the videos circulating online, it is evident that the drones were flying at an extremely low altitude, enhancing the level of stealth.There was no significant damage to the infrastructure. The debris hit a few buildings. Additionally, the substation suffered damage, resulting in a temporary power outage.

Simultaneously, the enemy also targeted the airfield in Yeysk, where local air defense units neutralized ten UAVs. All of them crashed off the coast of the Sea of Azov and seemingly originated from the Zaporizhzhia/Dnipro region.

At least one more UAV from the AFU was struck while approaching the strategic aviation airfield in Engels. The reason for the presence of only one drone is unclear. There might have been more UAVs heading in that direction, but they were possibly intercepted over Yeysk and Morozovsk.

Thanks to the swift response of the air defense crews, any severe repercussions from the attacks were averted - claims from Ukrainian sources about the alleged destruction of six aircraft are fakes coming from enemy propagandists. However, the recent attacks highlight the enhanced capability of the enemy to strike targets beyond the front line.This once again emphasizes the importance of countermeasures (rifle detachments have consistently proven their usefulness) and the necessity for safeguarding aviation at bases. The infamous hangars, frequently discussed, continue to pose challenges in terms of implementation.



Now, let us turn to a pro-Ukraine source which also reports similar results:

ISW has yet to find any visual evidence that Ukrainian forces have damaged or destroyed aircraft or infrastructure at any of the four Russian airbases targeted by drones on the night of 4-5 April.

This is from Ukrainska Pravda, clearly a pro-Ukraine source. They are using the assessment of ISW - Institution For the Study Of War, that is little damage to Russian airbases, etc.


Here is another source saying similar things:

Morozovsk Air Base, which is home to dozens of tactical jets, namely Su-34 Fullback fighter-bombers, came under a large-scale Ukrainian drone attack two evenings ago. You can read our previous reporting on the attack here. A flurry of subsequent claims of destruction followed, with outlets reporting multiple aircraft destroyed and a high price in life and other property lost. Meanwhile, Russian sources, including officials, said the drone attack was rebuffed by air defenses. We now have high-resolution satellite imagery to check those claims.

While there are real limits to the amount of information commercially available satellite images can provide, we see no major impacts on the installation. Another image taken later today shows aircraft taxiing and one landing on the runway. Regardless, we must underline that there still could be damage, including to aircraft. Shrapnel effects and other small damage, which can still be catastrophic to aircraft and equipment, simply do not show up in satellite imagery, although subsequent fires and destruction could. So, this does not mean no damage occurred or the attack was outright unsuccessful, but this is what we can see with the imagery available.

Morozovsk Air Base is a prime target for Ukraine, due to the high-value of the aircraft based there, their relevance to the conflict, and its close proximity to Ukrainian territory. Russia knows this and, in general, has bolstered its air defenses at high-risk bases near Ukraine as the drone campaign against such targets has expanded.

Just because the attack on Morozovsk doesn't appear to have been highly successful this time, doesn't mean that will be the case in future attacks, should they occur. Ukraine's long-range kamikaze drone capabilities are expanding at a bewildering pace with each passing day.

For now, it looks like Morozovsk made it out largely unscathed.



I will be putting up pictures in separate post.

So this is to conclude that the drone strikes achieved little or none. Do not rush to conclusions because certain outlets or certain governments want you to believe them.

Here are some before and after pictures of Russian airbase, little damage.

Before the Ukrainian drone attack:






This is after the drone attack:




So based on this, little or maybe miniscule damage. Not the wild inflated damage that the media reports. So this is another way to show that these drone attacks are given too much importance while the battlefield conditions for Ukraine get worse. Even Ukrainska Pravda is saying this by providing the ISW article, I linked above.

So it is appearing that many outlets are finally realizing that Ukraine is having a very hard time and they have to let their audience know. Maybe the West is slowly letting people realize Ukraine is having a hard time? I am only showing part of this article but given the author is Western, he seems reasonable. He is acknowledging the West's weakness and Ukraine's very difficult tasks.

The Looming Ukraine Debacle​


There is indeed a serious risk that, rather than the West teaching Russia a lesson and putting Putin in his place, the opposite may occur.

About two years ago, it became clear that Russia’s Plan A in Ukraine failed. Putin’s initial approach was a sudden movement of troops into Ukraine that, in the best case, could topple Ukraine’s government or, at least, coerce Kyiv into signing a new and less favorable version of the Minsk II agreement. Russia’s Plan A was resisted by the Zelenskyy government, whose military forces held firm on the outskirts of Kyiv in March 2022. After the collapse of the Istanbul peace negotiations between Kyiv and Moscow in April, Russia shifted to Plan B: waging a grinding war of attrition to exhaust Kyiv’s will and capacity to resist while testing the Western alliance’s collective ability to sustain Ukraine.

Russia’s Plan B had mixed results in 2022. While Russia won important, if costly, victories in Mariupol and Severodonetsk, Ukraine exploited Russia’s lack of manpower to win back territory in the Kharkiv and Kherson regions. However, following a partial military and economic mobilization, Russia turned the corner, defeating Ukraine’s offensive in 2023 and taking the upper hand in 2024.

As the slow success of Russia’s Plan B becomes more apparent, the failure of the West’s own Plan A to deal with Russia is now clarified. This plan consisted of sanctions to derail the Russian economy, diplomacy to isolate the Putin regime, and the use of NATO weapons and know-how to inflict serious damage on Russia on the battlefield. The optimal outcome would be Russia’s humiliation and withdrawal from Ukraine. But experts assured us that whatever happened, Russia would be seriously weakened and put in its place. This, however, is not what has materialized.

The other set of assumptions was military in nature. Russia’s failed use of hard power in the first two months of its “Special Military Operation” was taken as an indicator of gross military incompetence. Claims of high Russian causalities and equipment losses were linked to corruption, poor morale, and disorganization. Most commentators and reporters have accepted at face value the Ukrainian, U.S., and UK estimates of Russian losses, as well as the equipment loss count of the open-source intelligence unit “Oryx.” The claims of astronomical Russian losses reinforced the long-standing assumption of NATO military superiority over Russia, creating a remarkable war optimism in the West. Ukraine would now use higher caliber Western weapons, tactics, and training to defeat Russia comprehensively. NATO’s game-changing wonder weapons were kept on the sidelines and could be introduced when Ukraine needed decisive assistance.

These military assumptions have now been proven incorrect. The drip-feeding of advanced weaponry, calibrated to avoid crossing Russian redlines too flagrantly, did not allow the Ukrainians to achieve decisive success in 2023. While access to NATO intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance systems has given Ukraine a crucial advantage in battlefield targeting, NATO training, equipment, and planning proved unsuitable for Ukraine’s 2023 offensive. NATO countries have not provided consistent types of weaponry or kept up with the basic needs of munitions production or procurement into 2024. Overall, NATO was not well prepared for the war in Ukraine; its military doctrines foresaw interventions in civil wars or conflict with weaker opponents, not a proxy war of attrition with a peer competitor.

In contrast, Russia was better prepared for the long haul of military production and has also successfully innovated in response to the military setbacks it has experienced. The Russian military has adapted to conditions of near total battlefield visibility, the mass use of drones, and the vastly reduced power of tanks and aircraft. This includes innovative infantry assault tactics, new methods of using and countering drones, and, more recently, the devastating use of glide bombs that allow Russian air power to be used while evading anti-aircraft fire. On the tactical and operational level, Russia is engaging many parts of the front simultaneously, forcing Ukraine into an exhausting and constant redeployment of troops. Presenting Russian military successes as “human wave” or “meat assaults” is clearly inaccurate. Russia’s approach is gradual, attritional, and anything but mindless.

Given these dynamics, widespread talk of a Ukrainian victory has been replaced by the specter of defeat if the West cannot deliver the needed weapons and supplies. Yet, even if the shells arrive in time, Ukraine also has a manpower problem that is much harder to solve. The Ukrainian government’s deep reluctance to issue another mobilization may reflect a fear of popular discontent and doubts over the state’s capacity to deliver the required number of men.

Despite all the above indicators, many in the West want to continue Plan A: more sanctions on Russia, new weapons, and more training for Ukraine, all to somehow prepare Ukraine to launch another offensive in 2025. Yet it remains unclear how Ukraine can survive 2024 if Russia is outproducing the West by more than three-to-one in shells and has more troops at its disposal. Something has to give in the next phase of the war.

The current rather desperate effort to scrape together munitions to ensure Ukraine’s immediate survival does not constitute a Plan B for the West in Ukraine. A definition of “victory” is still lacking. It is unclear what prerequisites must be in place for “honorable” negotiations with Russia. The Western alliance’s Plan B must be a choice between rapidly developing an effective means of doubling down its support for Ukraine or starting to talk about a compromise with Russia.

Macron’s variant of a Western “double-down” in Ukraine looks unconvincing. Talk of NATO troop deployment is not a serious threat to Russia’s military dominance. More likely, it represents a signal of Western commitment intended to bolster Ukrainian morale at a crucial time, as well as ensure that, in case of a debacle, Macron himself cannot be accused of having been silent. But in real terms, what could 2,000 French troops do in Ukraine to change the military balance? Surely, it would be nothing more than a stopgap, but one with risks of further debacle, given that a NATO contingent in Ukraine would not be protected by Article 5 and would most likely be “fair game” for Russian missiles and drones.


I would not describe National Interest as pro-Russia at all so this is a big story.

And now NATO chief is admitting that Ukraine "may have to compromise."

What does this mean? It means that because of failed policies, Ukraine will have to negotiate with Russia and Russia has upper hand right now. Please watch this video:


This sort of language is different from we have heard before. This might be related to reality of Ukraine's difficulty due to lack of manpower, industrial base, bad economy, etc. So negotiations are being talked about again.
You can always tell how concerned the pro Putin propagandists are about the truth by the sheer amount of words they use to try and bury it.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Those things cannot be refuted so calling somebody names is the usual tactic.

Let's move on to the battlefield, unfortunately for Ukraine, they are merely reacting and being drained of what little resources they have.

"Ukrainian military had 48 combat engagements with Russian forces near Terny of Donetsk region, Bilohorivka of Luhansk region, Verkhnokamyanske, Spirne, Klischiyivka, Andriyivka of Donetsk region, Berdychi of Donetsk region, Krasnohorivka, Heorhiyivka, Novomykhaylivka, Staromayorske of Donetsk region and north-west Verbove of Zaporizhzhia region, at the East bank of Dnipro river in Kherson region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Orikhiv direction Russian army shelled Poltavka, Chervone, Bilohirya, Novodanylivka and Lobkove of Zaporizhzhia region. Russian aviation conducted airstrike at Robotyne of Zaporizhzhia region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Kherson direction Russian army shelled Mykilske, Tyahynka, Beryslav of Kherson region and Kherson city, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Novopavlivka direction Russian army shelled Heorhiyivka, Paraskoviyivka and Vuhledar of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Oleksandropil, Vodyane and Urozhayne of Donetsk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Lyman direction Russian army shelled Makiyivka, Terny, Torske of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Makiyivka and Serebryanske forestry of Luhansk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

So what we are seeing is a lot of fighting and a lot of Russian offensive maneuvers. This means a huge battlefield advantage in weapons, artillery and ammunition for the Russians. We can also see fight all along the front but especially engagements from center of the front all the way to the south, Kherson area. In the north, there is more shelling I believe.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,815
13,725
146
Those things cannot be refuted so calling somebody names is the usual tactic.

Let's move on to the battlefield, unfortunately for Ukraine, they are merely reacting and being drained of what little resources they have.

"Ukrainian military had 48 combat engagements with Russian forces near Terny of Donetsk region, Bilohorivka of Luhansk region, Verkhnokamyanske, Spirne, Klischiyivka, Andriyivka of Donetsk region, Berdychi of Donetsk region, Krasnohorivka, Heorhiyivka, Novomykhaylivka, Staromayorske of Donetsk region and north-west Verbove of Zaporizhzhia region, at the East bank of Dnipro river in Kherson region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Orikhiv direction Russian army shelled Poltavka, Chervone, Bilohirya, Novodanylivka and Lobkove of Zaporizhzhia region. Russian aviation conducted airstrike at Robotyne of Zaporizhzhia region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Kherson direction Russian army shelled Mykilske, Tyahynka, Beryslav of Kherson region and Kherson city, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Novopavlivka direction Russian army shelled Heorhiyivka, Paraskoviyivka and Vuhledar of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Oleksandropil, Vodyane and Urozhayne of Donetsk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Lyman direction Russian army shelled Makiyivka, Terny, Torske of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Makiyivka and Serebryanske forestry of Luhansk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

So what we are seeing is a lot of fighting and a lot of Russian offensive maneuvers. This means a huge battlefield advantage in weapons, artillery and ammunition for the Russians. We can also see fight all along the front but especially engagements from center of the front all the way to the south, Kherson area. In the north, there is more shelling I believe.
Glad you realize being called “Pro Putin” is an insult, but do your handlers know you feel that way? I’d be careful around windows my friend.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,445
1,656
136
Those things cannot be refuted so calling somebody names is the usual tactic.

Let's move on to the battlefield, unfortunately for Ukraine, they are merely reacting and being drained of what little resources they have.

"Ukrainian military had 48 combat engagements with Russian forces near Terny of Donetsk region, Bilohorivka of Luhansk region, Verkhnokamyanske, Spirne, Klischiyivka, Andriyivka of Donetsk region, Berdychi of Donetsk region, Krasnohorivka, Heorhiyivka, Novomykhaylivka, Staromayorske of Donetsk region and north-west Verbove of Zaporizhzhia region, at the East bank of Dnipro river in Kherson region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Orikhiv direction Russian army shelled Poltavka, Chervone, Bilohirya, Novodanylivka and Lobkove of Zaporizhzhia region. Russian aviation conducted airstrike at Robotyne of Zaporizhzhia region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Kherson direction Russian army shelled Mykilske, Tyahynka, Beryslav of Kherson region and Kherson city, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Novopavlivka direction Russian army shelled Heorhiyivka, Paraskoviyivka and Vuhledar of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Oleksandropil, Vodyane and Urozhayne of Donetsk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

"At Lyman direction Russian army shelled Makiyivka, Terny, Torske of Donetsk region. Russian aviation conducted airstrikes at Makiyivka and Serebryanske forestry of Luhansk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the evening report"

So what we are seeing is a lot of fighting and a lot of Russian offensive maneuvers. This means a huge battlefield advantage in weapons, artillery and ammunition for the Russians. We can also see fight all along the front but especially engagements from center of the front all the way to the south, Kherson area. In the north, there is more shelling I believe.

There is nothing for Ukraine to talk about with Russia because Russia has already shown Ukraine what they will do when they control Ukraine, which is rape, loot and murder Ukrainians. So the choice is either flee to a another country, die or kill as many Russian Orcs as they can defending their country. They have chosen to kill as many Orcs as they can defending Ukraine. At this point Ukrainians have decided that (I am quoting the Hunger Games) "If we burn, you burn with us". Russia needs to decide if they think committing genocide against Ukrainians is worth the cost in men and material they are experiencing.
 
Reactions: zinfamous and Leeea

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,569
5,093
136
I can see that there's a lot to untangle here...

Please, if you're going to try to counter, at least try something a little better than base sarcasm.
So, don’t answer the question but instead attempt a lame dismissal.

Apparently base sarcasm is about all you deserve to receive.
 
Reactions: Ajay and Leeea

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
741
1,316
96
So, don’t answer the question but instead attempt a lame dismissal.
Ah yes, the sarcastic question got dismissed, how shameful of me.

No seriously, you've lost. Be as sarcastic about it as you want to be.
I'm a bit bored so I can even detail in every way how you played your cards and how they've somehow been played so poorly that they all turned against you. The geopolitical, military and economic ones. It's quite a royal flush.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,623
49,185
136
You can always tell how concerned the pro Putin propagandists are about the truth by the sheer amount of words they use to try and bury it.
This was multiple, huge walls of text to attempt to refute a single stated attack that I imagine most people either didn’t know about or had forgotten.
 
Reactions: Paratus and Leeea
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |