Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,641
1,908
136

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,859
7,391
136

I recall how during the Vietnam war, a couple of my friends from back home were repairing and maintaining F-4's and F-100's. One was a crew chief and the other was in avionics. Well, they did make mention how after returning from sorties with holes and structural damage time after time, the pilots grew ever more wary of how far they could push those airframes they were strapping on to the point where they didn't want to fly them anymore because "those aircraft were just plain worn out" and "they felt dangerously sluggish" even after the aircraft went through depot maintenance.

Fast forward to Putin's airframes being damaged by AFU munitions, how those aircraft need to be inspected for the smallest damage that can grow into a crash and the trust issues that occur between maintenance crews and flyers, well, all I can say is given the culture the Russian military is notorious for, if I were an RU pilot flying previously damaged warbirds, I wouldn't feel confident at all going up in those holey spitball repaired buckets.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,205
9,000
136
Rumor is that lots of softening of targets in Crimea is going to lead to a 2nd offensive from Ukraine. Not sure where the troops would be coming from, but I'll allow it.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,193
13,442
146
I recall how during the Vietnam war, a couple of my friends from back home were repairing and maintaining F-4's and F-100's. One was a crew chief and the other was in avionics. Well, they did make mention how after returning from sorties with holes and structural damage time after time, the pilots grew ever more wary of how far they could push those airframes they were strapping on to the point where they didn't want to fly them anymore because "those aircraft were just plain worn out" and "they felt dangerously sluggish" even after the aircraft went through depot maintenance.

Fast forward to Putin's airframes being damaged by AFU munitions, how those aircraft need to be inspected for the smallest damage that can grow into a crash and the trust issues that occur between maintenance crews and flyers, well, all I can say is given the culture the Russian military is notorious for, if I were an RU pilot flying previously damaged warbirds, I wouldn't feel confident at all going up in those holey spitball repaired buckets.
Yup, lots of flight hours, welding, riveting, drilling for new mounting points, shock damage from non-fatal hits... That all adds up, and I suspect RU isn't x-raying the frames.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,521
9,831
146

In Sweden, pilots know how to land Gripens on rural farm roads and hide them in forests. The rest of NATO should catch up.


"These days, NATO worries that Russia might attack its airbases. Almost uniquely within the alliance (Finland has a similar system), Sweden is prepared for such contingencies: It has an extensive network of roads that double as military runways. It also has aircraft capable of landing and taking off on such roads—and officers and soldiers able to service and move the aircraft within minutes. With Western air dominance no longer guaranteed, other NATO members can learn from Sweden’s dual-use roads."
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,893
7,913
136
Ok maybe not Neptune... but maybe a next-gen cheap rocket drone... "Palianytsia"
This drone/missile hybrid is... interesting.
Imagining an AI targeting system controlling hundreds, if not thousands, of these. To target enemy air defense, vehicles, storage sites, critical infrastructure. If anything in the field of operation looks like it has gas or radiates EM, sign it up for a personal delivery. Send the opponent back to the stone age one kaboom at the time.

For Russia in particular, program these things to patrol the railways. And detonate on anything moving along them.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,865
136

In Sweden, pilots know how to land Gripens on rural farm roads and hide them in forests. The rest of NATO should catch up.


"These days, NATO worries that Russia might attack its airbases. Almost uniquely within the alliance (Finland has a similar system), Sweden is prepared for such contingencies: It has an extensive network of roads that double as military runways. It also has aircraft capable of landing and taking off on such roads—and officers and soldiers able to service and move the aircraft within minutes. With Western air dominance no longer guaranteed, other NATO members can learn from Sweden’s dual-use roads."

I think wartime highway dispersal programs have value however if the Russians attack NATO we are not going to be sitting on our hands not striking every air base they have like we've made the Ukrainians do. The fight is coming to them.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,521
9,831
146
I think wartime highway dispersal programs have value however if the Russians attack NATO we are not going to be sitting on our hands not striking every air base they have like we've made the Ukrainians do. The fight is coming to them.
This tactic is more about discouraging an attack than responding to one, methinks.
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,060
7,260
136
Landing on roads isn't exactly a new concept. Can't find pictures now, but didn't WW1 pilots do that fairly often?

I found this interesting bit though.

Highway, turned runway: U.S. Air Force crews land on Wyoming highways

May 3, 2023 Joining the MC-130J on the highway landing zones were a pair of A-10 Thunderbolt II

On April 30 and May 2, an MC-130J Commando II from the 15th SOS touched down on U.S. Highways 287 and 789 in southern Wyoming, as part of Exercise Agile Chariot. ... And having the capability to land on a highway or a road can absolutely present some unique ...
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,865
136
This tactic is more about discouraging an attack than responding to one, methinks.

Ordering dispersal would be likely done in the event a threat was perceived like markedly increased Russian activity in their direction. You don't want to keep them out there all the time.

Nordics also invested in hardened underground facilities during the Cold War that are once again seeing use. The Norwegians just reactivated the underground hangars at Bardufoss for their F-35s which would protect from everything but a direct nuclear strike.
 
Nov 17, 2019
12,060
7,260
136
^^^ It's a problem for maintenance, fueling, arming and so on.

As I recall, at least some of these planes use as much or more fuel on take-off than during the bulk of the mission. In flight fueling requires control of the airspace.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,346
2,527
136

In Sweden, pilots know how to land Gripens on rural farm roads and hide them in forests. The rest of NATO should catch up.


"These days, NATO worries that Russia might attack its airbases. Almost uniquely within the alliance (Finland has a similar system), Sweden is prepared for such contingencies: It has an extensive network of roads that double as military runways. It also has aircraft capable of landing and taking off on such roads—and officers and soldiers able to service and move the aircraft within minutes. With Western air dominance no longer guaranteed, other NATO members can learn from Sweden’s dual-use roads."
I like the Grippen..


Cheap. Easy to maintain…very capable and carries a meteor missile..

The meteor missile is an extremely good and I heard the USA wants it. Note it is going to be fired by the f35 in. Couple years
 
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outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,346
2,527
136
^^^ It's a problem for maintenance, fueling, arming and so on.

As I recall, at least some of these planes use as much or more fuel on take-off than during the bulk of the mission. In flight fueling requires control of the airspace.
From what I read Sweden has the infrastructure to accommodate this so it will not be an issue
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,865
136
I like the Grippen..


Cheap. Easy to maintain…very capable and carries a meteor missile..

The meteor missile is an extremely good and I heard the USA wants it. Note it is going to be fired by the f35 in. Couple years

It is being integrated for internal carriage at European customer request. US is developing the AIM-260 which will eventually replace the AIM-120 series.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,346
2,527
136
It is being integrated for internal carriage at European customer request. US is developing the AIM-260 which will eventually replace the AIM-120 series.

Ohhh I do like the aim120/260. But the meteor has a ramjet propulsion so it can regulate its speed and can be under power for a longer distance…

For example what I read the no escape distance for the meteor is 90km and the 120 is 20km. Even if the 260 doubles the no escape zone it will still fall short of the meteor
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,137
10,822
136

In Sweden, pilots know how to land Gripens on rural farm roads and hide them in forests. The rest of NATO should catch up.


"These days, NATO worries that Russia might attack its airbases. Almost uniquely within the alliance (Finland has a similar system), Sweden is prepared for such contingencies: It has an extensive network of roads that double as military runways. It also has aircraft capable of landing and taking off on such roads—and officers and soldiers able to service and move the aircraft within minutes. With Western air dominance no longer guaranteed, other NATO members can learn from Sweden’s dual-use roads."
Aw pishaw, we got F-35's that can land and take off vertically, and they only cost 50 times as much as a Gripen. (just an outragious guess for an outrageous program)
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,875
36,865
136
Aw pishaw, we got F-35's that can land and take off vertically, and they only cost 50 times as much as a Gripen. (just an outragious guess for an outrageous program)

Lockheed can sell F-35As for about what Saab can sell Gripen tho. And the capability difference is pretty substantial. There is a reason the Swedes have a lot of trouble moving them with foreign customers.
 
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