Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,726
1,342
136
U.S. Military Intelligence Estimates Russian Troop Deaths Reach 4,000

The reported deaths have come in under two weeks of official fighting in Ukraine.

High or low?

I'd think higher if those two Russian generals were taken out incidentally. Low sample size, so it could be be extremely poor luck, but I would expect a higher than 2000:1 ratio for generic combatants to top brass in the field. If they were targeted kills, looks like as good a guess as any.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,550
13,115
136
So the MIG delivery to Ukraine is cancelled... because it might anger Putin.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

NATO: An alliance of pussies unable to make the hard calls.. and thus the call is made for us, paying the blinds while the stack shortens.

Whatever we're doing, it is not enough. Ukrainians are fighting for OUR WAY OF LIFE, and apparently we've cant really be arsed with actually getting involved. Fuck Putin and FUCK his nukes. Little bitch.

CALL HIS BLUFF
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
So the MIG delivery to Ukraine is cancelled... because it might anger Putin.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

NATO: An alliance of pussies unable to make the hard calls.. and thus the call is made for us, paying the blinds while the stack shortens.

Whatever we're doing, it is not enough. Ukrainians are fighting for OUR WAY OF LIFE, and apparently we've cant really be arsed with actually getting involved. Fuck Putin and FUCK his nukes. Little bitch.

CALL HIS BLUFF
Yeah, this is bullshit. The USSR provided warplanes against the US and it didn't lead to nuclear war. I could see an issue if Ukraine was the attacker, but they are defending their own country.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,874
34,820
136
I'm a little torn as to how useful the Migs would be at this point. Time likely better spent finding stuff like spare S-300s and keeping them topped up on everything else (small arms/ammo, grenades, comm gear, food, fuel, drones, compatible munitions, etc) and help getting forces trained up in in western Ukraine.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Is Poland refusing to directly give MIGs to Ukraine because of possible retaliation from Russia and they are too close?

Why do they need us as a "middleman"
 

conehead433

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2002
5,566
890
126
Remember when all the right wing nut jobs were pushing for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan? If we didn't take on the enemy there and then that we would end up fighting them here. Where is there a line for Putin to cross that we make a stand against him? He could retake almost all the former USSR countries before anyone would do anything. Time to grow a spine and do what's needed to put down this attack on Ukraine and remove Putin from power permanently.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,303
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Remember when all the right wing nut jobs were pushing for fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan? If we didn't take on the enemy there and then that we would end up fighting them here. Where is there a line for Putin to cross that we make a stand against him? He could retake almost all the former USSR countries before anyone would do anything. Time to grow a spine and do what's needed to put down this attack on Ukraine and remove Putin from power permanently.
I don't get this mentality. Ukraine is wrecking Russian shit. Once again:

Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
Time to grow a spine and do what's needed to put down this attack on Ukraine and remove Putin from power permanently.

It's good thing adults are in control of the military.

You probably forgot about the Cuban Missile Crisis, but that almost started nuclear war, just over having missiles installed in another country.

Putin has already showed us he is willing to wreck Ukraine and Russia over his misadventure.

So if NATO were to start attacking Russian forces which would route them, then there is little doubt that Putin would start using tactical Nukes at the very least, and that would quickly escalate out of control...
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
So the MIG delivery to Ukraine is cancelled... because it might anger Putin.

ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

NATO: An alliance of pussies unable to make the hard calls.. and thus the call is made for us, paying the blinds while the stack shortens.

Whatever we're doing, it is not enough. Ukrainians are fighting for OUR WAY OF LIFE, and apparently we've cant really be arsed with actually getting involved. Fuck Putin and FUCK his nukes. Little bitch.

CALL HIS BLUFF

pretty good interview between Zelensky and Muir at ABC. Zelensky is rather direct and unambiguous about his opinions of Putin and the war situation right now.

When asked about the current conditions of peace, especially Putin's desire for agreements for Ukraine to stay out of NATO, Zelensky is rather sanguine about NATO and their use. Echoing some analysis so far--that it doesn't really seem all that necessary for them, anyway, considering Ukraine is doing pretty well at the moment without NATO aid and with this quasi-EU assistance with arms and aid, he also sees NATO's lack of response to an actual threat by Russia. I mean, regardless of this endless "blah blah blah, it's not part of NATO charter to do anything if you aren't NATO, blah blah blah, we don't want to start WWIII" blah blah blah nonsense, Zelensky pretty much puts NATO on the same table as Putin. You're all useless right now.

I like this guy.

He's just reminding the world that the defense of democracy and Western ideology is taking place right now, at his home. The world gets decide what they want to do with it. Let Putin bluff and bluster his way to either a stalemate, a genocide against Ukrainians, or a long, protracted occupation that extends the status quo of Putin and Assad and other tiny-dicked asshole autocrats in the world that want to continue their mid-19th century hegemony over impoverished and terrorized citizens of their purported nations.

Tellingly, he's not calling for an NFZ to defend against Russian planes, but defense against Russian rockets and artillery. He wants an air shield to take down missiles. I know some of you guys are well-versed in the effectiveness of these systems, and I recall Patriots being woefully inaccurate way back in 91 (...I think they are mo mo better these days? I don't really know). But, say EU and NATO countries can provide a decent protection against ballistics, that doesn't have a huge risk for taking down Russian planes, how does that constitute an act against Russian forces? Is it reasonable?

Besides, if Russia gets to casually take down civilian airliners whenever they go into their little "special operations" around the world, with an "oops" and everyone just ignores them, wtf is the point of not responding to this nonsense in kind? I'm tired of letting these short, tiny-dicked autocrats hand-fold their arms across the world and the rest of us just cower behind "Well, maybe they will nuke us if we punish them?" That's bullshit. I rather doubt Russia's ability to actually do that, anyway.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,550
13,115
136
I'm a little torn as to how useful the Migs would be at this point. Time likely better spent finding stuff like spare S-300s and keeping them topped up on everything else (small arms/ammo, grenades, comm gear, food, fuel, drones, compatible munitions, etc) and help getting forces trained up in in western Ukraine.
Indeed, but 30 planes leads to 60 leads to 200. One country to two to four etc.
It was a beginning.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,874
34,820
136
Indeed, but 30 planes leads to 60 leads to 200. One country to two to four etc.
It was a beginning.

There are maybe like 50 Mig-29s that they could lay hands on from various friendly countries. Drones are probably preferable at this point since they are easier to conceal, require less infrastructure, and when you loose a drone you don't loose a skilled pilot. It is clearly impractical for the Russians to secure their supply lines from them too.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,550
13,115
136
I don't get this mentality. Ukraine is wrecking Russian shit. Once again:

Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake
Only problem of course is that Ukraine is being levelled
There are maybe like 50 Mig-29s that they could lay hands on from various friendly countries. Drones are probably preferable at this point since they are easier to conceal, require less infrastructure, and when you loose a drone you don't loose a skilled pilot. It is clearly impractical for the Russians to secure their supply lines from them too.
Oki. Then drones. ALL THE DRONES.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,845
8,439
136
Is Poland refusing to directly give MIGs to Ukraine because of possible retaliation from Russia and they are too close?

Why do they need us as a "middleman"

That was partly what I was thinking when I heard about the "3 way" deal they were talking about. NATO status aside, Poland is more likely to be retaliated against if the jets leave from there into the battle space, than if they take off from Ramstein which is NATO air HQ and a direct confrontation with the US.
 
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