Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[Bitek]

Ukraine has been moving towards NATO since Russia seized its land in 2014 and setup an armed rebellion.
Russia complains of a border moving closer, and they are EVER the ones who moved it.
At some point we have to stand up and hold the line. No matter the cost, Europe is not a snack to be feasted upon. Its people are not to be freely slaughtered. There MUST be a cost. In blood.

I agree, and Ukraine has been moving towards the West for good reasons.

I do think them joining NATO is a redline for Russia, and it doesn't necessarily advantage us to be aggressive about it either. I think it's a useful threat to Russia should they misbehave, and it's useful otherwise as a neutral zone.

Having NATO directly border Russia is a problem for us as well. Both sides should seek a neutral zone in order to avoid any severe conflicts. We can compete over Ukraine economically and politically, but not militarily.

Russia is threatening military because they are losing badly on the other fronts. They should self reflect and make changes to be more competitive that way. They just understand invasion and war will only being further damage to them.

 

[Bitek]

Unfortunately, we don't have the best record"finishing" fights lately...

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...

Well, we don't be realistic about what finishing means.

No nation building, no conversion to secular democracies, no decades long projects and suffer ticky tack attacks by insurgents.

Bush 1 was smarter than his son that way. We go this far and stop, then go home to the victory parade.

Should have left AFG long ago. Never did have entered Iraq.

FAFO. We end the fighting then go home.

 

[Bitek]

You want WW3 to start? That is what you're basically suggesting as if Russia and China ever somehow go to war,it will result in WW3 and use of nuclear weapons will happen.

Russia is not Iraq, they have the capability to defend themselves even without the use of nuclear weapons. If world to start war with Russia, it will ultimately result in nuclear war and that is end of the world. Nuclear war will set humanity back 100-200 years.

Then they shouldn't invade then. China and other invested nations would do well to pass that on to Putin too.

Same stakes for both sides, but I trust our capability to carry it out.

Was Reagan this weak kneed? Thought he was you guys' hero.

We don't keep the peace by being pussies.

 

[Bitek]

I would not be so sure as everyone well aware that once nuclear war start , it will end with destruction with humanity as we know it today.

None of the other proxy wars during the cold war ended up in nuclear combat.

No reason to assume this will this time, but we can't capitulate to Putin just out of fear.

 

[Jaskalas]

Is this satire? What happened to you?

When someone strikes, you strike back. It really is that simple and it must be done to maintain order. Or no one will respect our protection or fear action from us ever again.
This is a test, and unless you intend on failing then you will support all efforts to protect Europe from an AGGRESSOR.

Do I need to spell it out, again?
Invading, slaughtering, and subjugating a people is unacceptable.
Do you understand that? Would you have us act on that, or are they just words to you?

Why the !@#$ would anyone lament what our ancestors did to the natives, if you intend to just sit idly by and twiddle your thumb when something similar happens on European soil? Your morals are being tested... either stand up for that belief or watch as someone else destroys them in your absence. America must answer the call, and a bloody cost must be extracted from anyone who attacks Europe.

We gave Russia the benefit of the doubt over Crimea. They are poised to, once again, take more. It has to end here and now.

 

[Jaskalas]

As for "what happened", pay attention:

Mar 17, 2014

Failing that, Russia's presence constitutes an invasion. This is an act of war against the west. The west must respond with its own acts of war, to stop further Russian aggression. A line must be drawn, clearly, and backed with military force. It must not be crossed.

The rest of Europe / Ukraine must not be invaded by Russia. The invasion must end with Crimea, and go no further. Military deployments must be gathered in Europe and set towards purpose. If Russia crosses this line, its assets outside Russian borders must be seized, the assets that resist destroyed.

This is not a US problem, but we are a member of NATO and an ally of Europe. We must heed a call to join them in this. We must use our strength to ensure western victory. That the line holds, and peace along with it.

Putin is using force, a superior force must be directed to oppose him and ensure diplomacy becomes the easier option. It must be proven to him that he cannot just simply take what he wants, as he did in Crimea.

 

[Ajay]

Biden just said at his presser that he thinks Russia is going to invade Ukraine, but unclear if it will be a small incursion or full scale invasion.

Biden predicts Russia 'will move in' to Ukraine, but says 'minor incursion' may prompt discussion over consequences

President Joe Biden on Wednesday predicted Russia "will move in" to Ukraine, citing existential concerns by the country's president, Vladimir Putin, even as he acknowledged disunity within NATO over how to respond to a "minor incursion."

www.cnn.com

Given the information that Biden has, if he thinks Russia will invade, then they probably will and that is not good.

For the love of god! What the hell did Biden just do??? Roll out the red carpet to Ukraine? Russia will suffer many losses, like Putin really cares that much - also, the Ukrainian army won't do well as the tanks and bombers move in. Has he just lost his mind?? Please, someone tell me I'm stuck in a bad dream. So what, we don't get annoyed till the Russians reach the Dnieper??? I need a drink.

Kind of funny that the American right, who used to be fond of crediting Reagan for the breakup of the USSR, now supports the dictator who wants to restore it.

It isn't funny. It's freaking bizarre. Although Putin has been catering to the same 'Right' within Russia - so it was natural to do so with American (and some European countries) as well.

 

[woolfe9998]

For the love of god! What the hell did Biden just do??? Roll out the red carpet to Ukraine? Russia will suffer many losses, like Putin really cares that much - also, the Ukrainian army won't do well as the tanks and bombers move in. Has he just lost his mind?? Please, someone tell me I'm stuck in a bad dream. So what, we don't get annoyed till the Russians reach the Dnieper??? I need a drink.



It isn't funny. It's freaking bizarre. Although Putin has been catering to the same 'Right' within Russia - so it was natural to do so with American (and some European countries) as well.

I didn't exactly mean "funny haha." You know that right? I mean, nothing these days is truly "funny" about the American right, not in the sense of inducing mirth anyway.

When viewing the American right and its history, it's important to understand that the only consistency in it is its opposition to the left. Would be "funny" to ask a righty who called Clinton a "draft dodger" for getting a college deferment from Nam what he thinks about Trump, right? Not funny haha though. Just pathetic.

 

[Shmee]

You want WW3 to start? That is what you're basically suggesting as if Russia and China ever somehow go to war,it will result in WW3 and use of nuclear weapons will happen.

Russia is not Iraq, they have the capability to defend themselves even without the use of nuclear weapons. If world to start war with Russia, it will ultimately result in nuclear war and that is end of the world. Nuclear war will set humanity back 100-200 years.

Sometimes I am ok with this. After all, "Better dead then red" in some ways. Humanity can be quite bad sometimes.

 

[gothuevos]

Feels about right, this is why we can't have nice things:

And damnit, looks like Mittens was right.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1483996181311148033

 

[sportage]

Right now I don't know anything about this and frankly I don't care or find reason to care just yet.
When something happens, then I'll care. Maybe.
However... I had this impression that Ukrainians actually wanted and hoped that Russia and Putin were more involved with Ukraine for the economic benefits and stability benefits? I thought while not all, but a lot of Ukrainians wouldn't mind some Soviet intervention. Isn't this kinda like a family thing? A lot of Ukrainians have Russian heritage, and vice versa?

And by the way, how about the United States invading, taking over, and then owning Mexico? That would solve the immigration problem, and who would care if General Motors or any other US company built a plant down in Mexico, if Mexico were part of the United States? Just think of the real estate opportunities for home owners? All that land, all that coast line just sitting there. All that beach front property. And if the United States invaded Mexico, their people wouldn't want a battle they would want US citizenship. And the United States gains some 128 million new citizens, tax payers, workers for those companies hurting for workers. So we invade, we take over, we clean the place up, and the United States gets one more huge giant massive state to add to our flag. Wouldn't it be nice to solve the problem of illegal immigration once and for all? Well then, this could be the solution. Plus, with owning Mexico the United States could then control illegal immigration from the South American countries.
I think we should do it.

 

[pcgeek11]

Right now I don't know anything about this and frankly I don't care or find reason to care just yet.
When something happens, then I'll care. Maybe.
However... I had this impression that Ukrainians actually wanted and hoped that Russia and Putin were more involved with Ukraine for the economic benefits and stability benefits? I thought while not all, but a lot of Ukrainians wouldn't mind some Soviet intervention. Isn't this kinda like a family thing? A lot of Ukrainians have Russian heritage, and vice versa?

And by the way, how about the United States invading, taking over, and then owning Mexico? That would solve the immigration problem, and who would care if General Motors or any other US company built a plant down in Mexico, if Mexico were part of the United States? Just think of the real estate opportunities for home owners? All that land, all that coast line just sitting there. All that beach front property. And if the United States invaded Mexico, their people wouldn't want a battle they would want US citizenship. And the United States gains some 128 million new citizens, tax payers, workers for those companies hurting for workers. So we invade, we take over, we clean the place up, and the United States gets one more huge giant massive state to add to our flag. Wouldn't it be nice to solve the problem of illegal immigration once and for all? Well then, this could be the solution. Plus, with owning Mexico the United States could then control illegal immigration from the South American countries.
I think we should do it.

View attachment 56252

Why stop with Mexico?

Canada, Cuba, Guatamala El Salvador ....

 

[sportage]

Why stop with Mexico?

Canada, Cuba, Guatamala El Salvador ....

We don't have an immigration problem with Canada. And besides, who wants to learn french? But a lot of Americans already know how to speak Spanish, and English.

 

[sandorski]

Why stop with Mexico?

Canada, Cuba, Guatamala El Salvador ....

Never.

 

[cytg111]

I agree, and Ukraine has been moving towards the West for good reasons.

I do think them joining NATO is a redline for Russia, and it doesn't necessarily advantage us to be aggressive about it either. I think it's a useful threat to Russia should they misbehave, and it's useful otherwise as a neutral zone.

Having NATO directly border Russia is a problem for us as well. Both sides should seek a neutral zone in order to avoid any severe conflicts. We can compete over Ukraine economically and politically, but not militarily.

Russia is threatening military because they are losing badly on the other fronts. They should self reflect and make changes to be more competitive that way. They just understand invasion and war will only being further damage to them.

In the meantime, sucks to be Ukraine I guess? Neutral zone my ass.
In a hot second Belarus is gonna give up the keys to the country to master Putin.... Then I guess Poland is the new "neutral zone"?

Russia is losing on the other fronts? Really? As US democracy is coming down before your own eyes, the GQP radicalized by the ultimate Putin puppet... YEA, Putin is losing big time round the table.

Putin needs an ass whooping.

 

[pcgeek11]

Never.

Well yeah. Nobody wants a frozen wasteland...

 

[sandorski]

Well yeah. Nobody wants a frozen wasteland...

We would make your lives a living hell and there is nothing you could do to stop us.

 

[pcgeek11]

We would make your lives a living hell and there is nothing you could do to stop us.

Living in Canada would be a living hell all by itself.... brrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

We don't have an immigration problem with Canada. And besides, who wants to learn french? But a lot of Americans already know how to speak Spanish, and English.

Give it a few more years, Canada is going to have an immigration problem with the US.

 

[Ajay]

Putin needs an ass whooping.

I agree. When are you Europeans going to give him one? I 100% guarantee that the US will back you when you do. 100%!

 

[cytg111]

I agree. When are you Europeans going to give him one? I 100% guarantee that the US will back you when you do. 100%!

If it were up to me? Right now in Ukraine.
Dont overextend yourself though, if you just manage to not implode your ‘democracy’ and become Putins Wang fluffers once again, the rest of us will take that as a win.

 

[Ajay]

If it were up to me? Right now in Ukraine.
Dont overextend yourself though, if you just manage to not implode your ‘democracy’ and become Putins Wang fluffers once again, the rest of us will take that as a win.

Whoosh! Thanks for the pointless deflection. Anyway, Europe, as usual is too fragmented to present any reasonable response to Russia unless the US leads the way. Biden, it seems, is trying to wake up Europe and get them on the same page with some of his comments yesterday. It’s your freaking backyard after all.

Maybe Germany's United States of Europe idea would be a good thing. IDK.

 

[kage69]

Having NATO directly border Russia is a problem for us as well. Both sides should seek a neutral zone in order to avoid any severe conflicts. We can compete over Ukraine economically and politically, but not militarily.

I'm not sure competition is the right word personally. It's Ukrainians wanting to determine their future and Putin saying 'No, you don't get to do that because we used to own you.' If Ukraine had no interest in integrating with Europe and actually wanted to be a Russian vassal state we wouldn't be here right now.

This becoming a military issue is purely due to Putin's fear, not the West's ambition, because he knows his system can't compete. Ukraine succeeding in developing into a Europe-oriented democracy where state power is limited by a free press, independent judiciary, and the rule of law is existential threat material to the Russian bratva-ocracy. Success in this endeavor by Ukraine, so close to Russia culturally and linguistically, would serve as an intolerable contrast to Putin’s authoritarian, state-centric vision for Russia’s future, and so he must stop it. A neutral zone isn't going to help him at all. I'm not sure why people think NATO and Russian territory abutting each other is some kind of ominous prospect, have they never heard of Kaliningrad? Being subject to eachother's radar means less these days, in an age of high tech jamming and orbital surveillance.

There isn't going to be any peace in Europe until people like Putin and Lukashenko are gone. They don't need friends, they need enemies.

 

[IronWing]

However... I had this impression that Ukrainians actually wanted and hoped that Russia and Putin were more involved with Ukraine for the economic benefits and stability benefits? I thought while not all, but a lot of Ukrainians wouldn't mind some Soviet intervention. Isn't this kinda like a family thing? A lot of Ukrainians have Russian heritage, and vice versa?

No.

Holodomor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[pauldun170]

Putin's list of reasons for trying to destabilize Ukraine are cover everything from old school geography (Black sea access\Risk of region se of Ukrain|georgia being cut off in case of conflict.) resources (gas, minerals) to phycho old school shit headedness (If Ukrainians keep "complaining" and "electing non approved people" Russians might notice that after a brief party with Oligarchs that they are now living in a Dictatorship on a path to a Totalitarian government and do something silly like "protest".
Also Chechnya's sleep timer is ticking away....for now.

Russia bought a bunch of false flags on etsy and are waiting to pull the trigger on "Helping" Ukraine.
Putin is so far off the deep end that he is fucking over the Russian people.

German sanctions would hurt them big time but the big question mark is China, Russia's top trading partner.
It all comes down to how willing everyone will be in refusing Russian natural gas and how effective sanctioning countries that suck on Russian arms industry.
China will effectively absorb all that business.

Should the US defend Ukraine?
(checks list of treaties)

A Russian invasion of the Ukraine hurts Russia and benefits China. We'd basically reintroduce containment policy until Republican's take control of the US government and energy producers bribe enough people to loosen up sanctions because "profit"

A US placement of troops prior to invasion solves the direct Russian attack but then opens up the whole counter operations by all those "Concerned Ukrainians who just so happen to have paychecks signed 'The Wagner Group'" who may or may not have accidently set bombs that blow up Americans. This doesn't even get to the part about actual Ukrainians who aren't too keen with US wrap around shade brigade shock troop soldiers telling them that they no longer have right of way.
You have officials that just want the US cash and weapons please.

In the case of US involvement, China can adopt a chaotic neutral approach and simply point out the obvious truths about the United Sates and western society. Continue deals with Russia, steal more of the defense business and pretend to be peace brokers in the face of an out of control western civilization further inflating their ego.

In case we solve the problem diplomatically, Russia will simply wait long enough to pull stuff like this

Russia is not the USSR and can't sustain any sort momentum.