Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
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Been giving this some thought and reading. The Ukraine needs ATACMS now. We've been kinda on the back foot in supplying the equipment that Ukraine needs for much of the war - giving the Russians time to regroup, coalesce and alter their strategy to their advantage. The UKR need the ability to fire at long range, from safer locations, deeper into Russian occupied land as well as Russian supply lines, HQs and ammo/fuel dumps in Russia. The proviso that the Ukrainians don't fire on Russian townships will be upheld. In the medium term, the Russians will move HQs and ammo, etc into Russia towns - but it is much better to put them on the defensive, IMHO. Putin has other options b/4 going nuclear - he just doesn't want to pay the price yet (using more combat aircraft for example).

As Ukraine gets more GMLRS launchers pressure is going to dramatically increase on the Russian Air Force to go in and do something about them. Only problem is that Ukrainian AD is very much still operational and the risks to aircrews are huge. This is why they’ve been doing very low altitude strikes on the front or launching missiles from out of country.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
As Ukraine gets more GMLRS launchers pressure is going to dramatically increase on the Russian Air Force to go in and do something about them. Only problem is that Ukrainian AD is very much still operational and the risks to aircrews are huge. This is why they’ve been doing very low altitude strikes on the front or launching missiles from out of country.
Absolutely. Vietnam 'wild weasel' anti-radar attacks aren't effective against a well setup multi-radar S-300 battery. Russia would have to be ready to suffer heavy losses for any SEAD operation. Being able to move the HIMARS back closer to Ukrainian AA would put the Russians in a tactical disadvantage. Putin will, of course, scream bloody blue murder, but what else is new. We have to keep opening up tactical opportunities and advantages for the Ukrainian army to close down Russia's artillery advantage.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Last I saw, the closest Ukraine was to Kherson was 17km away.
I hope this news is true, it'd be a major change in tempo on a very crucial front in the war. At the very least, the northwest side of the Dnipro must be secured at all costs.
But it'd be highly unexpected if they closed that distance in just two days.

Yes, I think I jumped the gun.

I have not been able to find any reports mentioning Kherson in the last 20 hours. A bunch of rumors and then just silence. I doubt anyone would be able to keep the lid on things that long if the news was real.


While it is still possible, it is most likely fake news. Sorry.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
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Yes, I think I jumped the gun.

I have not been able to find any reports mentioning Kherson in the last 20 hours. A bunch of rumors and then just silence. I doubt anyone would be able to keep the lid on things that long if the news was real.


While it is still possible, it is most likely fake news. Sorry.

Probably Kherson Oblast not Kherson city.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Who knows, could have been a practice drill with a body double or someone else important keeled over. Hope we find out.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Well Russians tossing cruise missiles into Kyiv again so seems like something happened.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
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Well Russians tossing cruise missiles into Kyiv again so seems like something happened.

What "happened" is that Russia is hungry for genocide and still has the capacity to carry it out. To launch missiles with impunity as no missiles are returned.
Missiles need to rain down on Russia. INSIDE Russia.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
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What "happened" is that Russia is hungry for genocide and still has the capacity to carry it out. To launch missiles with impunity as no missiles are returned.
Missiles need to rain down on Russia. INSIDE Russia.

That’s just a day that ends in “y” for that country. This looks reactive as they often are. But to what now is the question.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,823
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That’s just a day that ends in “y” for that country. This looks reactive as they often are. But to what now is the question.
A new leader is in charge of the operation. If they are dumb and showy, they need to throw their weight around immediately.

I think the fact that Ukraine can now hit 60km behind the front line have upset the top boys and girls in the Kremlin. Not to mention the drones that hit the oil refinery 100's of km behind enemy lines recently.

They may have gain a city of rubble in Donbas, but its not exactly good news for the Russians.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,595
7,653
136
That’s just a day that ends in “y” for that country. This looks reactive as they often are. But to what now is the question.

I'd wager Russia received new targeting information.
Would be less likely to lob missiles into cities if Ukraine had the means to retaliate.
 

bononos

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2011
3,894
162
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Has the momentum of the war swung back to the Russian side? Seems like they are slowly gaining ground over the Ukrainians and taking over the eastern regions. Ukraine seem to be losing many soldiers and cannot hold the Russians back.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,823
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Has the momentum of the war swung back to the Russian side? Seems like they are slowly gaining ground over the Ukrainians and taking over the eastern regions. Ukraine seem to be losing many soldiers and cannot hold the Russians back.
Not really. Russia has burned through their stock of modern armour. So much so that they have begun getting old soviet era spares from Belarus.

The ground that Russia has conquered is of little strategic benefit to Russia and has been drenched in Russian blood.

Russian moral is rock bottom. Russia has no senior officers left, they are all dead - at least from the Western District command.

All this from Ukraine's tactics of flexible defense. Push when they can hurt the Russians badly. Otherwise pull back slowly and wear them down.

More and more NATO weapons are flooding the Ukrainian battle space, and they are innovative in using cheap Chinese Alibaba drones to bypass Russian air defense to attack targets at will far behind enemy lines.

So Russia has no momentum. They have very little left of whatever they had in getting what they got in Donbas. They have so little operational forces left that they are stripping training personnel and equipment from Russia and sending it to the front lines. Which means the next lot of Russian soldiers will be poorly trained, if at all, before going to the front lines.

Its a stalemate, but leaning towards Ukraine. For Russia to gain the momentum they either have to drag Belarus into the war, or mobilise Russia for war. First option is unpalatable to the Belarusian President. Second option is unpalatable to the Russian President.

Anyways the above is roughly the summary for the last week of this thread
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
As Ukraine gets more GMLRS launchers pressure is going to dramatically increase on the Russian Air Force to go in and do something about them. Only problem is that Ukrainian AD is very much still operational and the risks to aircrews are huge. This is why they’ve been doing very low altitude strikes on the front or launching missiles from out of country.

The Uk AD aside, I doubt that their air force even has the capability to find, track and destroy these mobile launchers. They'll probably have more luck to destroy them with UAV directed Artillery, MLRS and Iskander-M strikes. There was one example where the Russians used an UAV directed Iskander to destroy an SA-11 "Buk" launcher in ~6 minutes from acquisition:
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
The Uk AD aside, I doubt that their air force even has the capability to find, track and destroy these mobile launchers. They'll probably have more luck to destroy them with UAV directed Artillery, MLRS and Iskander-M strikes. There was one example where the Russians used an UAV directed Iskander to destroy an SA-11 "Buk" launcher in ~6 minutes since acquisition:

It's going to be tough to catch them in that kind of window I think. HIMARS can set up, empty its pod, and be hauling down the road again in a few minutes.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136
It's going to be tough to catch them in that kind of window I think. HIMARS can set up, empty its pod, and be hauling down the road again in a few minutes.
Yeah, this combined with the standoff range will make it very difficult for Russia to destroy them.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,407
4,968
136
Been giving this some thought and reading. The Ukraine needs ATACMS now. We've been kinda on the back foot in supplying the equipment that Ukraine needs for much of the war - giving the Russians time to regroup, coalesce and alter their strategy to their advantage. The UKR need the ability to fire at long range, from safer locations, deeper into Russian occupied land as well as Russian supply lines, HQs and ammo/fuel dumps in Russia. The proviso that the Ukrainians don't fire on Russian townships will be upheld. In the medium term, the Russians will move HQs and ammo, etc into Russia towns - but it is much better to put them on the defensive, IMHO. Putin has other options b/4 going nuclear - he just doesn't want to pay the price yet (using more combat aircraft for example).
Without knowing anything about the targeting system, couldn't it somehow being limited to targets in Ukraine?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,885
34,850
136
Without knowing anything about the targeting system, couldn't it somehow being limited to targets in Ukraine?

If so not easily it but it is kind of besides the point since they can already strike Russian cities if they wanted to. There isn't any military need for them to waste limited advanced weapons on civilians and risk their arms supply to boot.

If they got ATACMS they'd clearly only use it in occupied territory against high value targets.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Without knowing anything about the targeting system, couldn't it somehow being limited to targets in Ukraine?
Technically, yes, in software. All the targeting data is likely coalesced in a database as well - but if we have any brains, and we do, it’ll be well protectEd. It just isn’t worth screwing with software in that way for combat equipment - it would be a potential disaster if a bug was introduced.

From my perspective, we should just let it be - at some point, sadly, UKR may need to target civilian areas in Russia if the Russians try to hide their most valuable assets behind human shields. Russia shouldn’t endanger their own people, but Putin doesn’t care - they’d just see it as an opportunity to accuse UKR of war crimes.

Honestly, it appears Russia will be making another thrust from Belarus. It should be open season on targets just over the boarder - don’t let the bastards get a foot hold. This isn’t a damn game. All IMHO - I don’t sit behind the resolute desk in the Oval Office.
 
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