Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,285
8,205
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OK, why was I so terse there? Fact is 10 minutes from then it was lights out, gotta go to sleep ASAP, I have an 8:10AM medical appointment across town to which I will bicycle. So, I just said you are entirely naïve and left it at that. Make sense?

You think the KGB (now morphed into the FSB) just faded away from Germany after the Berlin wall came down? I'll admit I am only about 25% into Catherine Belton's book but I bet a reading to the end will reveal that the FSB's tentacles are deep in Germany as well as other nations outside the confines of Russia's official borders. Belton's research is hell of impressive. Russia's style of economic and political infiltration is to penetrate, set up organizations that are a façade for their real purpose. They hide their kleptocracy monies, billions and billions in multifarious manners. You think they aren't doing this in Germany? You think it was 30 years ago, not today? Well, believe what you want, man. But what you believe and what it is are likely very much at odds.

I suggest you read Belton's book... here's a tidbit from article linked in Racan's post, which followed on the heels of yours, a quote from POLITICO's August 31, 2022 article:



There's a difference, though, between 'spies' and fifth-columnists. That is, between people who pass on valuable information and those with power in a nation whose actions are intended to serve the interests of a foreign nation.

Furthermore, I think for the latter category it's a blurry line between those whose motivation is explicitly to aid that foreign country and those who just happen to have a self-interest that partially coincides with those of that country. Which brings it back to the German dependence on Russian gas supplies.

Trying to connect it to the simple transactional case of 'spies' being paid for information, seems to be over-simplifying the situation, to me.

In much the same way that conspiracy-theorists do - when they conclude that political outcomes must be the results of explict conspiracies organised consciously, rather than the concequences of different groups each pursing their self-interests.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
Things are escalating between Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan as well.


They have been fighting each other for years but from what I understand it's been more of the civilian population shooting at each other. Looks like they are trying to take advantage of Moscow being distracted to make a permanent land grab.
However, what more concerns me is that I chronically misspell both countries name.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,955
5,826
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They have been fighting each other for years but from what I understand it's been more of the civilian population shooting at each other. Looks like they are trying to take advantage of Moscow being distracted to make a permanent land grab.
However, what more concerns me is that I chronically misspell both countries name.

If I didn’t have google or autocorrect I would butcher those names every time.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,880
34,834
136
Another reason Xi isn’t going to help Putin is that there are a lot opportunities to be had to expand Chinese influence at Russia’s expense. Kazakhstan has already bolted, there will be others.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Stepping back in to the P&N muck for a short quickee ....

Regarding the posts above ... somebody way long back many pages ago posted a purported Chinese map of a splintered and reapportioned Russia. Is that still what they imagine?

Also, no comment on the apparent attempt to kaboom Vlad? Something about the motorcade attacked?
 
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Atari2600

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2016
1,409
1,655
136
Another reason Xi isn’t going to help Putin is that there are a lot opportunities to be had to expand Chinese influence at Russia’s expense. Kazakhstan has already bolted, there will be others.

There is a lot of resources under the Siberian tundra.

Who is going to help Russia if the Chinese decide to just take it?
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
There is a lot of resources under the Siberian tundra.

Who is going to help Russia if the Chinese decide to just take it?

Russia has nukes. China don't want WW3, it's bad for business.

If Russia broke up, maybe China would make a move on an independent Siberia. But the Russian Federation? I don't see it.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,880
34,834
136
Russia has nukes. China don't want WW3, it's bad for business.

If Russia broke up, maybe China would make a move on an independent Siberia. But the Russian Federation? I don't see it.

Yeah, they’ll just pick up some friends in central Asian countries that fall out or Russia’s orbit.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
5,435
234
106
If China tries to take Russia with their untested army and weapons, I am certain that something like what is happening in Ukraine would be repeated.

Plus, nukes.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,059
38,568
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If China tries to take Russia with their untested army and weapons, I am certain that something like what is happening in Ukraine would be repeated.

Plus, nukes.

I'm certain you are wrong. China is also a nuclear power. Also in a better spot with regard to weapons and supplies, Chinese designs are now better than Russian designs, and they wouldn't be drawing from unreliable unmaintained Cold War left overs. Also, money and functioning infrastructure.

Add in numerical superiority and none of the morale problems that plague Russians fighting for, it equals Russia getting it's ass kicked. Again.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,059
38,568
136
If China tries to take Russia with their untested army and weapons, I am certain that something like what is happening in Ukraine would be repeated.

Plus, nukes.

I'm certain you are wrong. Even with their lack of battle experience, China is also a nuclear power. Also in a better spot with regard to weapons and supplies, Chinese designs are now better than Russian designs, and they wouldn't be drawing from unreliable unmaintained Cold War left overs. Also, money and functioning infrastructure.

Add in numerical superiority and none of the morale problems that plague Russians and it equals Russia getting it's ass kicked. Again.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
If China tries to take Russia with their untested army and weapons, I am certain that something like what is happening in Ukraine would be repeated.

Plus, nukes.

Dunno, hardly anyone lives there, relatively. Nor do I think they'd be all that interested in fighting.
 
Reactions: Leeea

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,059
38,568
136
I think the Russian government getting "reset to factory defaults" would happen before they went to war with China. After the drubbing they're getting now, there won't be any appetite for fighting countries with more power than Ukraine. Especially after the coming winter, which is really going to suck for them particularly the orc twats still in Ukraine.

 
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