Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
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i guess we are at that point now, where the utility of knowing what rus is moving into crimea is outweighed by the disruption of supply lines.

with the capture of all the rus materiel putting Ukraine at near parity of guns and armor, maintaining pressure and forcing the rus military to send conscripts to fill the breaking rus lines becomes the priority. does anyone have a source/breakdown of how many rail supply lines are left?

the real question: is this a short term or med term play?
are the AFU going for the jugular or setting up russian forces and civilians in crimea for a nightmare winter by taking kherson and cutting the water off. (although this could just be a psy-op sort of thing to embarrass putain after annexation and nuke saber rattling)

either way, nice to know they can reach out and touch the kerch bridge.
 

RnR_au

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Jun 6, 2021
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with the capture of all the rus materiel putting Ukraine at near parity of guns and armor, maintaining pressure and forcing the rus military to send conscripts to fill the breaking rus lines becomes the priority. does anyone have a source/breakdown of how many rail supply lines are left?
The Russians in Kherson is completely stuffed if the rail link can't be repaired. Kherson's only safe rail link was via Crimea and Kerch Bridge.



I don't believe Russia have enough supply trucks to feed their forces in Southern Ukraine.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
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either way, nice to know they can reach out and touch the kerch bridge.
Do we know it was Ukraine that did this?


Looking at the missing bridge spans, this looks nothing like a missile strike.


This looks like a commercial demolition job. The type where they take their time and drill holes in the concrete for precisely laid explosives. Not the sort of thing that is done on the stealth while the guards are looking the other way.
 

Leeea

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RnR_au

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Do we know it was Ukraine that did this?


Looking at the missing bridge spans, this looks nothing like a missile strike.


This looks like a commercial demolition job. The type where they take their time and drill holes in the concrete for precisely laid explosives. Not the sort of thing that is done on the stealth while the guards are looking the other way.
I've seen some talk about this on twitter. No idea if true. But apparently the company that built the bridge had never built one before. And the guy that built it was one of Putin's cronies so surely pocketed a fair chunk of coin from the project. So the guess is that a timed explosive blew a railcar with fuel up and the shockwave forced whole dodgy road spans to lift and disconnect.

But yeah just guess work.

Edit: even if the rail link doesn't fall into the sea, surely it will be weakened enough that a HIMARS strike might be enough to finish the job. The bridge is still burning and steel and concrete can't handle such heat loads without weakening.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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even if the rail link doesn't fall into the sea, surely it will be weakened enough that a HIMARS strike might be enough to finish the job.

That would require Ukraine to first reach the Sea of Azov. Even then, distance is 150km from the shoreline.
Special forces blowing fuel tankers seems far more effective at this point.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
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Do we know it was Ukraine that did this?


Looking at the missing bridge spans, this looks nothing like a missile strike.


This looks like a commercial demolition job. The type where they take their time and drill holes in the concrete for precisely laid explosives. Not the sort of thing that is done on the stealth while the guards are looking the other way.
we have no real information at this point, so everything is pure speculation but we have the car bridge damaged and a train on the rail bridge affected in a seemingly significant way.

if it was a missile/artillery strike at long range with much less accuracy then we might expect both the rail and road to get hit.

if it was special forces planting explosive charges then you would expect the rail line to be higher priority if you want to stop military supplies. but the rail line is for now intact.
assuming a UKR demo team went in at night, having them waiting around for a fuel train to cross at the right time seems risky but if the target is the rail-line then maybe worth it. theoretically you would bring enough explosives to 100% destroy the rail line and maybe use anything left over to take out the road. but the road is down and the rail span is still up. relying on the fuel train fire to finish the job seems chancy. special forces carrying that much explosives would seem like a lot of extra weight to be hauling underwater. the other option is they took a car and loaded it with explosives and timed it for when the train was nearby. but again the train line seems like the more pressing target.
it would depend on all those above and underwater patrols the rus supposedly had guarding the bridge.

the damage appears to run across both bridges. so that generally rules out an aircraft attack, since they would want to fly a path along the bridge rather than perpendicular.
 
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Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
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I found a very interesting comment(very first reply) on Quora regarding Russia's use of nukes in Ukraine.

The gist of it is that it isn't happening. It's very well worth the read and informative.

 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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The possibility of this escalating into a full scale nuclear conflict is a legitimate concern. I have this same concern. What is the off ramp for this conflict?

The off ramp is the genocidal invader gets to live. All they have to do is go home.
We did not give Hitler that option. That is the difference. That is what nukes are good for.
 
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gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
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No way this is a truck bomb:
the spans were dropped to cleanly, with no visible explosive damage on the decks that I could see.
there are shaped charge explosives using water filled things that look like plastic rain gutters. they can cut a straight line on a flat surface. im guessing you can pneumatic spike them into the concrete to fix in place and the explosive force goes in a single focused direction like a HEAT round. if they placed it underneath the span, it should take way less time than drilling holes like commercial demolition companies that are trying to use the bare minimum of explosive in exactly the right place.
 
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Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
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What a beautiful birthday present for Putin.

If that bridge is gone then Crimea is toast for the Russians? Ukraine still got about 2 months lefts of major offensive action before winter makes things tricky.

Imagine re-annexing Crimea before Christmas? What a year, Jesus.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,713
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Are we seeing the same video of the burning tanker?
That whole section will need to be replaced.
fires are always more dramatic looking than the final result.

it all depends on the structure of the bridge and how exposed the steel is. if the deck is on fire but the main span underneath is intact and the russians can put out the fire, then it is potentially repairable in a meaningful timeframe. if the span steel is heated past 425-450 degC then yes you have real problems. apparently at 625deg steel loses half its strength.

this is disastrous for the russians for certain, but until that span falls we wont know for sure if this is a years to repair, or months to repair during the spring. if they dont try to put it out, then yes they have trully given up on the bridge.

the chaos of russian civilians trying to leave crimea now is just icing on the cake with a scoop of sprinkles.

edit: degrees C
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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fires are always more dramatic looking than the final result.

it all depends on the structure of the bridge and how exposed the steel is. if the deck is on fire but the main span underneath is intact and the russians can put out the fire, then it is potentially repairable in a meaningful timeframe. if the span steel is heated past 425-450 degF then yes you have real problems. apparently at 625deg steel loses half its strength.

this is disastrous for the russians for certain, but until that span falls we wont know for sure if this is a years to repair, or months to repair during the spring. if they dont try to put it out, then yes they have trully given up on the bridge.

the chaos of russian civilians trying to leave crimea now is just icing on the cake with a scoop of sprinkles.

So wait, are you saying that jet fuel can melt steel beams?
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,713
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So wait, are you saying that jet fuel can melt steel beams?
i get the joke. but the WTC was uniquely more vulnerable to fire as the steel was very exposed and thin.

in modern construction, rebar in concrete with polystyrene ball filler can gain time until failure due to the thermal insulation property of the voids in the slab. they are taking it to the extreme with bubblecrete.
 
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