Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Nov 17, 2019
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Come January, Silly Putty may have enhanced, if not full control over the US Congress.

Things may be about to go very, very dark.

Hope is fading rapidly, but I won't mind being proved wrong.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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People congress is going to pass 40-50B worth of aid for Ukraine in the lame duck, enough to keep them going all though early 2024 at a minimum. The Russians are really going to need some sort of favorable static situation before that money would run out.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
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People congress is going to pass 40-50B worth of aid for Ukraine in the lame duck, enough to keep them going all though early 2024 at a minimum. The Russians are really going to need some sort of favorable static situation before that money would run out.
I'm not sure if people have internalized the idea that if Republicans in Congress say 'we are going to defund Ukraine' Biden would just say no and that would be the end of it.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
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Well you will be pleasantly surprised when Republicans are completely unable to defund Ukraine aid and appropriations then, haha.

Repeat after me: Assuming Democrats pass additional funding for Ukraine before next January, which they fully have the votes to do and plan on doing, Republicans cannot do anything to affect aid to Ukraine. Period.
One can hope - but Congress not only has appropriation authority, Congress also fully retains the authority to rescind any such prior appropriations
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,815
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I'm not sure if people have internalized the idea that if Republicans in Congress say 'we are going to defund Ukraine' Biden would just say no and that would be the end of it.

Some people who plan to be in the GOP house majority seem to be genuinely also unaware of this dynamic, which should make life interesting.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,663
3,223
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I'm not sure if people have internalized the idea that if Republicans in Congress say 'we are going to defund Ukraine' Biden would just say no and that would be the end of it.
Biden can continue lend-lease program, but if Republicans rescind all Ukraine appropriations, that will be all he can do. Haven't looked hard at limits of the lend-lease program that was passed
How would they go about doing that?
Two options, one requires President, other is just done via normal congressional procedures.
Under normal procedures, it is just like any other congressional bill - which the President can veto - while the Repubs will plan to include it with "must pass" legislation like the debt ceiling to make it difficult to veto.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Biden can continue lend-lease program, but if Republicans rescind all Ukraine appropriations, that will be all he can do. Haven't looked hard at limits of the lend-lease program that was passed

Two options, one requires President, other is just done via normal congressional procedures.
Under normal procedures, it is just like any other congressional bill - which the President can veto - while the Repubs will plan to include it with "must pass" legislation like the debt ceiling to make it difficult to veto.
Same as Obama, Biden will not allow any amendments to the debt ceiling so that's not going to work. Any attempt to rescind Ukraine funding will be vetoed and there is a 0% chance of Republicans being able to override that veto.

There is nothing Republicans can do vis a vis Ukraine aid - they are completely powerless.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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How would they go about doing that?
'Pubs don't play by the rules. If there is a rule saying they can't do something, they change the rules so they can .... see SCOTUS confirmations.

If there is a rule saying they can't cut previously approved funding for Ukraine, they'll change the rules so they can.
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
Same as Obama, Biden will not allow any amendments to the debt ceiling so that's not going to work. Any attempt to rescind Ukraine funding will be vetoed and there is a 0% chance of Republicans being able to override that veto.

There is nothing Republicans can do vis a vis Ukraine aid - they are completely powerless.
If Republicans did tie rescinding to a debt ceiling bill Biden wouldn't be able to do anything about it but let it ride. You don't choose another country over your own. My God, talk about the optics on that one, haunting Democrats for a century.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
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If Republicans did tie rescinding to a debt ceiling bill Biden wouldn't be able to do anything about it but let it ride. You don't choose another country over bankrupting your own. My God, talk about the optics on that one, haunting Democrats for a century.

Ukraine money cut is about the 5th or 6th thing that Republicans might demand for a debt ceiling raise. We're probably not going to hit it until mid-23 anyway.
 

Zor Prime

Golden Member
Nov 7, 1999
1,023
588
136
Ukraine money cut is about the 5th or 6th thing that Republicans might demand for a debt ceiling raise. We're probably not going to hit it until mid-23 anyway.
I don't see it happening anyway, I was being theoretical. I think both sides are pretty much in the middle together for the time being. McCarthy was an idiot with the "no blank check" quip -- nobody expects there to be an indefinite blank check to begin with ... (or am I wrong?)
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,815
136
I don't see it happening anyway, I was being theoretical. I think both sides are pretty much in the middle together for the time being. McCarthy was an idiot with the "no blank check" quip -- nobody expects there to be an indefinite blank check to begin with ... (or am I wrong?)

I don't think anybody has proposed a blank check like Republicans have used on the last several wars. In dollar terms this is probably the most effective intervention in modern US history. We get to wreck the Sovi...er...Russian army without leaving home and the military gets a ton of new equipment out of the deal and the domestic defense industry gets paid. This is as close to a win-win as I've seen in my lifetime.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
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One can hope - but Congress not only has appropriation authority, Congress also fully retains the authority to rescind any such prior appropriations


Not true any longer. The Supreme Court gave permission for the chief executive, aka the President, to raid any and all funds already allocated for anything, as long as an "emergency" is declared. Don't think Biden will have difficulty declaring just that, giving him all sorts of funding.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
If Republicans did tie rescinding to a debt ceiling bill Biden wouldn't be able to do anything about it but let it ride. You don't choose another country over your own. My God, talk about the optics on that one, haunting Democrats for a century.
Absolutely not. You do realize Republicans tried this exact play under Obama, right? Obama’s answer was that he would not negotiate a single thing in regards to the debt ceiling. Nothing.

Biden’s answer will be the same because that’s the only responsible thing he can do. Absolutely zero concessions.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
Not true any longer. The Supreme Court gave permission for the chief executive, aka the President, to raid any and all funds already allocated for anything, as long as an "emergency" is declared. Don't think Biden will have difficulty declaring just that, giving him all sorts of funding.
This is true, although I wouldn’t be that surprised to see that all of a sudden Ukraine funding is a ‘major question’ when wall funding was not.
 
Dec 10, 2005
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They should actually just push through a debt ceiling increase in the lame duck session that will push the limit up for a long time to come, and remove that ridiculous brinkmanship from the table.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,685
43,945
136

Good story from Reuters about the hastily abandoned Russian base in Balakliia

Associated Press / PBS story on atrocities in Bucha *warning it's graphic*

 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Biden can continue lend-lease program, but if Republicans rescind all Ukraine appropriations, that will be all he can do. Haven't looked hard at limits of the lend-lease program that was passed

Two options, one requires President, other is just done via normal congressional procedures.
Under normal procedures, it is just like any other congressional bill - which the President can veto - while the Repubs will plan to include it with "must pass" legislation like the debt ceiling to make it difficult to veto.

So, do Putin's bidding, else we will destroy the economy?

They can try, guessing it will go as well as the repeal Obamacare votes/hostage-taking.

Regardless, I want to see a big package out of Congress to get the arms Ukraine needs to win, and let Rs pound sand
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,774
919
126
Not just veto, there's also the filibuster in the Senate.

Saw some posts on Reddit claiming Russians have thrown off uniforms and will attempt to the attack Ukrainian troops in Kherson dressed as civilians. That would of course be a war crime.
 
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