kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 28,058
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Bruh
Ukraine Wanted to Join NATO's Alliance for Years. What Stopped It?
In the years before war, Ukraine’s leaders made enthusiastic pleas about their desire to bring the country into NATO, and the prospect rose in popularity in public polls.www.nbcnewyork.com
"In the 1990s, as NATO reevaluated its purpose in a world without a powerful Soviet Union — which the alliance was designed to counterbalance — NATO formed a more organized process for prospective countries: the Membership Action Plan. The program aimed to help aspiring nations who were interested in joining solidify their application through goals and recommendations from NATO’s leadership, many of which involve democratic, economic and other ideals. "
I'll give you a hint, Ukraine worked its ass off to meet these anti corruption and democratic ideals and was largely successful, so successful that NATO members, EU members, at this point would be hard pressed to find a reason to not accept the country. So on the verge of joining the west, for all its struggles, Russia intervenes, goes to war, cause in a another year it may not be a possibility anymore.
You do realize you’re a propaganda victim, right?There is a difference between what NATO says and what is reality. Did Ukraine not seek NATO membership over the past few years? Do I need to post the video again where Zelensky told CNN NATO told him Ukraine would never be a NATO member? Stop falling for western propaganda.
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Ukrainian PzH 2000 non-critically damaged. Probably sent to Lithuania for repairs.
NATO has set up repair yards in Poland for western gear. Given the physical size of Ukraine they want to move these closer to the front so equipment doesn't spend so much time in transport. Russian spec equipment that needs heavy work gets sent to Czechia AFAIK.
You do realize you’re a propaganda victim, right?
Russia lies about everything. Literally everything. They count on you to amplify their lies because they think you are stupid. Do you think they are right?
We already covered this.Actually I have known about this conflict for the past 8 years, where as everyone else is just caught up in the current events and whatever they hear on the news. I know the history, the vast majority of people don’t.
I’ll do you a favor. Here is a lecture by John Mearsheimer on this conflict. He gave this lecture back in 2016, way before this invasion started and warned Russia would one day invade Ukraine due to NATOs policies.
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Bound to happen sooner or later I guess. Kind of surprised they've gone this long without losing several, what with the drones. I know one of their Caesers got damaged this past summer, probably already back killing orcs though.
I still can't believe they put a bunch on barges and towed them out to sea (10km!) so they could shell boats and Snake Island. Serious balls there.
Actually I have known about this conflict for the past 8 years, where as everyone else is just caught up in the current events and whatever they hear on the news. I know the history, the vast majority of people don’t.
I’ll do you a favor. Here is a lecture by John Mearsheimer on this conflict. He gave this lecture back in 2016, way before this invasion started and warned Russia would one day invade Ukraine due to NATOs policies.
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There is a difference between what NATO says and what is reality. Did Ukraine not seek NATO membership over the past few years? Do I need to post the video again where Zelensky told CNN NATO told him Ukraine would never be a NATO member? Stop falling for western propaganda.
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Lol its not western propaganda dude. If you want to be part of NATO you gotta walk and talk like the duck. It is what it is, and Ukraine did not, deeply corrupt and subject to influence from a lot of not-democratic-aligned entities.
Also you talk about NATO as some sovereign entity. Its not. If we the people wants Ukraine in the flock, our politicians WILL get in fucking line and say "yes sir" "thank you sir" "will do sir".
Thats the beauty of actually free democracies. We will do as we say.
To boot, with the onslaught of the internet and modern media we can empathically reach outside our own borders. We can and will unite. And fuck those who seeks to divide us for personal profit and power.
I think that detail in the NYT story is probably wrong. There are pics and video of the Ukrainians using their 2S22 Bohdana from shore to work over Snake Island. They might have barged it into the Danube delta only about 35km from the island, well within range of base bleed and RAP projectiles for a 52 caliber gun.
Laughable.
I was disappointed by Obama’s lack of action regarding Crimea. Your only awareness was probably your glee at your strongman role model stealing what he wanted. I imagine you still are unsure about who shot down a plane full of civilians.
Let’s accept that Putin was provoked because of western support for Ukraine. I think that much is fair as it’s contrary to his interests of an illiberal and undemocratic world.
How do you get from Putin wanting a neo-fascist world to him being right to invade Ukraine?
The only way I can get there is if you have much the same desires as Putin. No democracy. Not many freedoms. Authoritarian strongmen controlling everything of value.
Are the faults of the west that bad? Are we so irredeemably broken that we to need to give up on the vision of a free and democratic society? Is a “benevolent” fascism better?
lol. Now Russia thought it was ok to invade Ukraine because the US did bad things elsewhere.Democracy huh? You mean the same kind of democracy where a democratically elected president was overthrown due to a NATO backed coup in Ukraine back in 2014? The same kind of democracy where a U.S. diplomat is caught in a leaked phone call picking out who the next president of Ukraine would be? That kind of democracy?
And yeah Russia invaded Ukraine. I guess Putin saw the list of countries we have invaded(Iraq/Syria/Libya/Afghanistan/Yemen/Somalia/countless others…and probably figured he had the green light.
BTW there was a poll conducted back in 2013 where a world opinion poll was conducted asking which country they saw was the biggest threat to world peace. Can you guess which country was #1? It wasn’t Russia BTW. I’ll post a link here so you can look at the results.
And The Award For 'Greatest Threat To World Peace' Goes To ...
And The Award For 'Greatest Threat To World Peace' Goes To ...www.huffpost.com
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Democracy huh? You mean the same kind of democracy where a democratically elected president was overthrown due to a NATO backed coup in Ukraine back in 2014? The same kind of democracy where a U.S. diplomat is caught in a leaked phone call picking out who the next president of Ukraine would be? That kind of democracy?
And yeah Russia invaded Ukraine. I guess Putin saw the list of countries we have invaded(Iraq/Syria/Libya/Afghanistan/Yemen/Somalia/countless others…and probably figured he had the green light.
BTW there was a poll conducted back in 2013 where a world opinion poll was conducted asking which country they saw was the biggest threat to world peace. Can you guess which country was #1? It wasn’t Russia BTW. I’ll post a link here so you can look at the results.
And The Award For 'Greatest Threat To World Peace' Goes To ...
And The Award For 'Greatest Threat To World Peace' Goes To ...www.huffpost.com
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They do. Most of the time, no system is perfect cause its made by man and man is fallible, but by and large, yea, otherwise its gtfo election day. You can actually force an election outside of term here, all that needs to happen is that one or two of the supporting parties revoke their trust -> and election it is.You must live in a world where politicians actually do what they say they will do, instead of just saying whatever will get them elected. Must be nice.
Well if the people want Ukraine in NATO, feel free to start your own revolution to make that happen because these same politicians you glowingly talk about have been rejecting Ukraine for years.
Maybe when you get older, you’ll understand politicians most of the time do the opposite of what people want, and instead do whatever their donors tell them to do.
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