Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Weapons are one thing. What's Ukraine's active boot count at? How much of their fighting force is still available?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,270
9,343
146
I could have a prime opportunity to buy Ukrainian capture North Korean AK kits in a few years at the rate things are going.
White van opportunity. Even better if they jam after the second fire. Hey militia freak . . . yes, you in the Tractor Supply camo and tactical belt buckle . . . over here!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,852
34,799
136
Weapons are one thing. What's Ukraine's active boot count at? How much of their fighting force is still available?

Over a million under arms IIRC.

Ukraine has doesn't have a manpower shortage but they have a trained forces shortage.
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,405
7,042
136
Weapons are one thing. What's Ukraine's active boot count at? How much of their fighting force is still available?

That might actually be a concern.

Seen some vids and pics of Soledar. Seems like the numerical advantage of just throwing people to eat up bullets eventually swayed the battle in Russia’s favor.

Also NATO was not originally going to give them bigger weapons and tanks and stuff but something in the equation changed and they are sending it now.

Lets just hope its not a day late and a dollar short because if the russkies are allowed to annex the areas they currently occupy, then US and Europe loses a major source of food.

Ukraine is Europe's bread basket and Putin will use food to hold the world to ransom. You might think it won't affect you but we live in a capitalist economy. If Europe is willing to pay $10 for a loaf of bread.. the corporations that sell you bread here.. won't be putting it in supermarkets for $2.50 a loaf.

As proven by tons of asylum seekers on our southern border, you can live without gasoline, but you can't live without food and a semblance of security.
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,661
3,217
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Based on what we saw with the last round of recruiting, I'm not convinced they have 500k rifles to send with them. I guess they could try the 'ol death squad march of old.
There was no mention of rifles, just 5 rounds of ammunition. The Russians can throw them at the Ukrainians.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,792
49,468
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Weapons are one thing. What's Ukraine's active boot count at? How much of their fighting force is still available?
An under appreciated part of modern industrialized war is that manpower is essentially limitless. You can overwhelm your enemy quickly so they can’t mobilize, you can destroy all their expensive equipment so they can’t effectively fight anymore, you can politically destabilize them with massive casualties, but neither Ukraine nor Russia is actually going to run out of people to fight.

I mean think of Germany and the Soviet Union in WW2. Germany suffered around 5 million casualties and while they started to run into manpower problems at the end they were still fielding millions of people.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Someone linked an FP article recently. I thought this was an interesting point from the Lithuanian Foreign Minister:

Putin is betting on more delays. He must lose that bet,” Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis tweeted on Wednesday. “Ukraine has more than earned our support and respect. It’s time to send ATACMS and unleash the Leopards,” he added, referring to the long-sought-after German tanks that have not yet been sent to Ukraine (though Poland has indicated it plans to donate Leopard tanks to Ukraine). A deadly HIMARS strike against a Russian barracks in the occupied city of Makiivka at the start of the new year was the latest sign of Ukraine’s effectiveness using long-range weapons.

He has a great point. Not only is Putin betting on delays, but also betting on our elections and those in other countries to move the pendulum away from support for Ukraine. Putin surely knows his western adversaries well. Sigh.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
An under appreciated part of modern industrialized war is that manpower is essentially limitless. You can overwhelm your enemy quickly so they can’t mobilize, you can destroy all their expensive equipment so they can’t effectively fight anymore, you can politically destabilize them with massive casualties, but neither Ukraine nor Russia is actually going to run out of people to fight.

I mean think of Germany and the Soviet Union in WW2. Germany suffered around 5 million casualties and while they started to run into manpower problems at the end they were still fielding millions of people.
There was a huge difference in the well trained German troops that fought earlier in the war than at the end. If it wasn't for the fact that the Germans used slave labor (jews, people from captured territories) they wouldn't have had the manpower to keep pressing forward. In addition, if it weren't for the incredible competence of the professional German officer core, Germany would have bit the dust much sooner. Lastly, Hitler was a complete bozo, other than the fact that he caught Europe off guard (sound familiar?).
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,852
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He has a great point. Not only is Putin betting on delays, but also betting on our elections and those in other countries to move the pendulum away from support for Ukraine. Putin surely knows his western adversaries well. Sigh.

He's gambled and lost at virtually every turn so why not roll the dice agin I guess.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,541
13,110
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Over a million under arms IIRC.

Ukraine has doesn't have a manpower shortage but they have a trained forces shortage.
When this whole shit broke out a lot-lot of vets here were already packing their cars until decree came down that you could join the fight with no legal consequences but your active service days would be over - aka lose your job in the armed services. If gov were to reverse that decision I am sure Ukraine would have a giant influx of “foreign legionaries”.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,541
13,110
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Someone linked an FP article recently. I thought this was an interesting point from the Lithuanian Foreign Minister:



He has a great point. Not only is Putin betting on delays, but also betting on our elections and those in other countries to move the pendulum away from support for Ukraine. Putin surely knows his western adversaries well. Sigh.

Putin has been propping up puppets in the west for decades. Kompromat and straight up bribery. Loans.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,573
7,635
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On the matter of attrition.
What makes us think we secured United States support for Ukraine through the rest of the year?

Our Russians Republicans will surely hold the debt hostage over Ukraine.
Meaning, Ukraine could lose our support THIS MONTH. Not next year.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,852
34,799
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On the matter of attrition.
What makes us think we secured United States support for Ukraine through the rest of the year?

Our Russians Republicans will surely hold the debt hostage over Ukraine.
Meaning, Ukraine could lose our support THIS MONTH. Not next year.

Treasury won't exhaust its measures until likely June. Ain't jack shit MAGAs can do about US aid to Ukraine until at least then and likely anyway irrelevant if Biden mints the coin.

Government funding runs out in September at which point we can expect a shutdown. Gives us 9 months to arm Ukraine though.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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Even if Congress fails to fund weapons purchases, what's to stop Biden from just giving weapons already in the US stockpiles to the Ukraine?
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,820
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The Russian economy in two charts...




Snagged from https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/urals-oil which also has this helpful recent description;

Russian Urals crude oil was trading near $55 a barrel in January, close to levels not seen in a year, and about 35% below international prices, as the ongoing war in Ukraine and sanctions against Russia left the country with a few buyers. The price also remains well below the $60 a barrel price cap imposed by G7 countries, the EU, and Australia on December 5th. Russian seaborne crude imports into Europe shrank 80% in 2022 as European refiners turned to crude grades from Norway, the US, Saudi Arabia, Guyana, and Azerbaijan, according to tanker tracking data reported by S&P Global Commodities. China and India remain the biggest markets for Russian oil, although the shipping distance pushed freight costs up and forced barrels to be discounted to compete with shipments from the Middle East.
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,661
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Even if Congress fails to fund weapons purchases, what's to stop Biden from just giving weapons already in the US stockpiles to the Ukraine?
Biden has fairly broad authority under the Ukraine lend-lease act passed in 2022, but that act expires at end of fiscal year 2023 - (that is, ending on September 30 of this year), after which he is far more constrained on any transfers.

Edit: Hmm, so if the House Republicans remain hard-on Russian puppets (as fully expected), Biden should "transfer" everything he can find of use to Ukraine from stockpiles in September this year, even if actual shipping takes a bit longer...
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,679
7,175
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As with our own intolerance for blood being spilled by our youth during the Vietnam "Conflict", I wonder when it will be that Putin's iron fisted control over the people of Russia give way to mass demonstrations that grows beyond his abilities to suppress. Should be a sight to see if it ever happens.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,573
7,635
136
As with our own intolerance for blood being spilled by our youth during the Vietnam "Conflict", I wonder when it will be that Putin's iron fisted control over the people of Russia give way to mass demonstrations that grows beyond his abilities to suppress. Should be a sight to see if it ever happens.

Modern technology has given rise to police states of unparalleled power. Russia is just a bigger North Korea at this point.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
He's gambled and lost at virtually every turn so why not roll the dice agin I guess.
Well, his turn from building up capitalist Russia to Czarist imperialism worked in 2014, but turned out poorly in 2022. Still, there are plenty of opportunities for the west to screw this up. If we get the tank deal done - I’ll be more optimistic.

Ukrainian needs to be able to take most of their land this year in order for NATO member nation citizens fully believe they are doing the right thing and more strongly back their governments, IMHO. That means a substantial scaling up of offensive capabilities. A long stalemate will lead many to question the utility of their contributions to the war effort. If Putin doesn’t lose, he wins. Russian math 😐
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,852
34,799
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Well, his turn from building up capitalist Russia to Czarist imperialism worked in 2014, but turned out poorly in 2022. Still, there are plenty of opportunities for the west to screw this up. If we get the tank deal done - I’ll be more optimistic.

Ukrainian needs to be able to take most of their land this year in order for NATO member nation citizens fully believe they are doing the right thing and more strongly back their governments, IMHO. That means a substantial scaling up of offensive capabilities. A long stalemate will lead many to question the utility of their contributions to the war effort. If Putin doesn’t lose, he wins. Russian math 😐

Besides the immediate armor and ranged weapon needs I think Europe should assume the war will last 2-3 more years and use confiscated Russian assets/funds to continue arming Ukraine out of their own revitalized defense industrial base.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
Besides the immediate armor and ranged weapon needs I think Europe should assume the war will last 2-3 more years and use confiscated Russian assets/funds to continue arming Ukraine out of their own revitalized defense industrial base.
Fair enough :thumbsup:

Just a bit pessimistic today after following some links posted by others on the republican house, Tucker Carlson and other MAGAts. Plus Germany's bizarre response to, well, everything.
 
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