Maybe it is an indication that Russian technology isn't up to snuff.... I wonder how they compare to us air defense...Against S-300s and 400s? That is quite a trick on mostly flat terrain. Hats off to those guys. Love to know how they do it.
Germany will send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and approve their re-export from partner countries, German government spokesperson Steffen Hebestreit said in a statement on Wednesday.
The goal was to quickly establish two battalions with Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine, Reuters reports the statement said, adding Germany would in a first step provide 14 Leopard 2 tanks from military stocks. Training of Ukrainian troops in Germany will begin soon, and Germany will also provide logistics and ammunition, it said.
Chancellor Olaf Scholz is expected to address the German parliament on the issue at 12 GMT.
Plot twist... Ukrainian forces have already been training on Leopards for months. Surprise offensive on Russian forces in 1 week with the Leopards out in front...There we go, it's official. And Germany is sending tanks from their own army stock, not from refurbs or new production, so hopefully they can be shipped almost immediately.
A big win for the maddeningly opaque and complicated process of Diplomacy. Always remember: Countries don't have friends, only mutual interests. And within any body politic, leaders have to deal with diverse viewpoints and interests, akin to herding cats. In democracies, it's a wonder ANYTHING gets done.Russia-Ukraine war: Biden says decision to send US tanks to Ukraine is ‘no offensive threat’ to Russia
As it happened: US president announces 31 Abrams M1 tanks will be sent to Kyiv, adding: ‘If Russian troops returned to Russia, this war would be over today’www.theguardian.com
There we go, it's official. And Germany is sending tanks from their own army stock, not from refurbs or new production, so hopefully they can be shipped almost immediately.
Have Leopards gone up against Russian/Soviet armour before? I guess we've seen M1s vs T-72s in other conflicts so it's predictable how that would go, but as the M1s (and Challengers) will only be present in very small numbers (and will have difficulty being supplied and refuelled?) I guess they won't see a lot of action, whereas the Leopards will presumably be more extensively used?
Am interested to see if these things make any dramatic difference.
Here we fucking go. Now the f-16’s to really make Putin piss himself.
Biden makes it official, 31 M1s for Ukraine.
I would expect some have been training in Poland... They would not have announced it to the world. I also wonder how much the MIC has ramped up production of everything.Plot twist... Ukrainian forces have already been training on Leopards for months. Surprise offensive on Russian forces in 1 week with the Leopards out in front...
j/k - but one could wish...
Wouldn't it be interesting if when WW3 breaks out that Germany would be part of "The Allies"?
It unfortunately sounds like it's going to take months for those to arrive, but that may give Russia pause if it thinks it can launch a renewed assault in the spring. Russian tanks already have trouble cracking Ukranian defenses; they might not stand a chance against M1 Abrams tanks.
I would expect some have been training in Poland... They would not have announced it to the world. I also wonder how much the MIC has ramped up production of everything.
How many tank in a Battalion?
I again admit pure ignorance, but what is considered a "critical mass of tanks"? I assume there is some calculus of handful are nice, but very expensive and high priority targets. Where does that shift to "oh, this is a legitimate threat and Russia needs to respect a column of heavy metal"?
not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.Biden makes it official, 31 M1s for Ukraine.
A regular US army brigade has about 80-90 main battle tanks. If Ukraine had a mix of around 80-100 modern Main Battle Tanks along with the Infantry fighting vehicles that would allow them to well equip one brigade with this equipment which isn't bad. In suitable ground the Abrams and Leopards should make short work for any Russian T-series tanks. Maybe have supporting Ukraine T-series tanks to go in close and flush out the Russia tanks while the western tanks hand back and support and use their long range capabilities to pick off the Russian tanks.
not that the abrams isn't an awesome tank, but the US position was that it's so much more complicated than other tanks - operations, logistics, and maintenance - that it's difficult to deploy. and training and deployment certainly won't happen immediately.
but even if it's just to get germany off its ass with Leopard exports, that's 31 M1s well spent for democracy in Ukraine.
assuming the M1s do get deployed next year (what i read as far as how long training and logistics setup would take), i have no doubt they will be highly effective