Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,540
136
Small potatoes. If it went bang I'd be more inclined to rate it higher on the list, but overrall I am indeed in favor of China having less money. I'm more concerned about the official Chinese take away from the war in Ukraine so far. CCP strategists are calling for a strategy to take out Starlink, as well as creating a Chinese equivalent. They also want remedies for modern ATGMs and drones, as well as a concerted effort to prepare China and it's populace to weather economic sanctions from the West.

Not encouraging. Still, good luck trying to indoctrinate people to ignore hunger. Last I checked there is no vehicle engine or power plant that can run on party propaganda.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,574
7,637
136
The only way to stop missile barrages, is your own offensive weapons.
Russia must be bombed into blackout conditions.
Russia must know that fire will be met with fire, or they will attack with impunity.

Deterrence means knowing Ukraine can strike back. They've never had that capability, we need to give it to them. We need to ensure a deterrence exists. That will only happen if Russian cities go dark.

Russia launched one of its biggest aerial assaults on Ukraine overnight.
A spokesman says the country has no capability to counter the weapons used.



 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,540
136
Russia must be bombed into blackout conditions.


Your WWIII fetish is really tiresome. How many times are you going to demonstrate here you have no business advocating strategy? This chickenhawk toughguy bullshit you espouse that would cost millions of lives makes you sound more sick than concerned. Just stop. We can help arrange dead Russians without mimicking the stupidity of their state media can't we?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,001
14,525
146
Your WWIII fetish is really tiresome. How many times are you going to demonstrate here you have no business advocating strategy? This chickenhawk toughguy bullshit you espouse that would cost millions of lives makes you sound more sick than concerned. Just stop. We can help arrange dead Russians without mimicking the stupidity of their state media can't we?

Wait, Russia is allowed to attack Ukraine, but Ukraine is not allowed to attack back?

Ukraine should have the capability to attack military targets inside Russia as they are being INVADED by Russia.

I disagree with attacking cities and civilians, but the idea that Ukraine should not attack over the boarder is absurd.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
Wait, Russia is allowed to attack Ukraine, but Ukraine is not allowed to attack back?

Ukraine should have the capability to attack military targets inside Russia as they are being INVADED by Russia.

I disagree with attacking cities and civilians, but the idea that Ukraine should not attack over the boarder is absurd.

Jaskalas isn't just advocating for Ukraine to attack Russia but for NATO and all western nations to attack Russia directly. He has been doing so repeatedly in this thread.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,862
34,808
136
Wait, Russia is allowed to attack Ukraine, but Ukraine is not allowed to attack back?

Ukraine should have the capability to attack military targets inside Russia as they are being INVADED by Russia.

I disagree with attacking cities and civilians, but the idea that Ukraine should not attack over the boarder is absurd.

Ukraine can use its own weapons, either native built or obtained ex-Soviet gear, but not US made/provided arms to strike inside Russia.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,001
14,525
146
Ukraine can use its own weapons, either native built or obtained ex-Soviet gear, but not US made/provided arms to strike inside Russia.

I disagree. I think we should allow Ukraine to attack in kind. Nothing loses more than trying to "limit" a war when you're being invaded.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,862
34,808
136
I disagree. I think we should allow Ukraine to attack in kind. Nothing loses more than trying to "limit" a war when you're being invaded.

This is just what current US policy is not that I agree with it. We are willing to turn a blind eye to western tech that might end up in systems (drones mostly) that are used to attack targets on Russian territory though.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,574
7,637
136
I disagree with attacking cities and civilians, but the idea that Ukraine should not attack over the boarder is absurd.

As Russia would demonstrate, electricity IS military. It does harm Ukraine to go cold and dark in the winter. To lose factories and production time. To have to focus industry, time, and manpower towards repair and replacement of infrastructure. Everything we are exists on electricity. You remove that, you cause serious harm.

Russia is doing that with impunity.
This is a huge mistake on our part, we are not creating any deterrence. Thus we are inciting more harm against us. Against Ukraine.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,574
7,637
136
Your WWIII fetish is really tiresome. How many times are you going to demonstrate here you have no business advocating strategy? This chickenhawk toughguy bullshit you espouse that would cost millions of lives makes you sound more sick than concerned. Just stop. We can help arrange dead Russians without mimicking the stupidity of their state media can't we?

Go piss yourself somewhere else.
If Russia hits energy infrastructure, we need to hit theirs.

Deterrence is a vital part of stopping wars. If they aren't bleeding, they will feel free to NEVER stop.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,540
136
Wait, Russia is allowed to attack Ukraine, but Ukraine is not allowed to attack back?

Ukraine should have the capability to attack military targets inside Russia as they are being INVADED by Russia.

I disagree with attacking cities and civilians, but the idea that Ukraine should not attack over the boarder is absurd.


What I quoted and what you are asking about are two vastly different things.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,540
136
Go piss yourself somewhere else.

You're projecting, again. This is now, what, the 7th or 8th time you've done this in the thread? You're so outraged over in your warm Western home that you advocate giving Putin a direct reason to begin WWIII. Again. I call you out for getting carried away, then cue the reheated outrage. *yawn* Not quite every 100pages or so, but close.

If Russia hits energy infrastructure, we need to hit theirs.

Who is we? America is not fighting Russia you absolute twat. Why do you have the attention span of a frothy Faux Noise zealot? Ukrainians are hitting Russian (war related) infrastructure, where the fuck have you been? Is this another of your black out periods we're seeing, or is there still another person using your account? Not giving Putin options is part of the fight, regardless if you agree with it or not. Not making life hell for Russian citizens is a calculated move, and a smart one at that. It is the Ukrainian prerogative to select and engage targets, not yours, or Biden's.

Deterrence is a vital part of stopping wars. If they aren't bleeding, they will feel free to NEVER stop.

No fucking shit Sherlock, now stop trying so damn hard to sound pithy and start thinking about real world costs. Do spend extra time focusing on what an ideal situation this happens to be, for ridding the globe of Russian belligerence on the cheap. Realizing you are not Ukrainian might go far as well, though this outrage of yours can always be used more productively and is only a plane ticket away. If you want to help Ukraine, what you're doing here ain't it. Leave this crazy shit talking to the crazy shit talking Russians. You come out looking better that way. Not sure if you've noticed, but Russia's prospects for improvement in both the near and the long term look like shit. If you think Russia isn't bleeding, read some history. Realize that some beasts contain more blood than others, then maybe work on your patience?
 
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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,759
980
126
Either way this is another example where appeasement has backfired. For years everyone 'recognized' the one china policy in hope china would leave the status quo (that is Taiwan effectively as its own country); we should have declared Taiwan an independent country decades ago knowing if we didn't sooner or later what would happen (and yes i think it is a given that China will invade Taiwan - it is just a question of when).

The problem with that is Taiwan relies on the West to run said chip fabs, both in materials and expertise.

It's hard to say what would happen to them in an actual invasion. Always some value in forensics right? China has the ability to not hit them with missiles, then there is pre invasion agent work. Taiwan has the latent ability to have everything pre-wired to blow, and they've had a long time to fortress up.

Deep water access and a platform out of the 1st chain is considered more valuable to the CCP far as I know, though we need to remember the level of national face it represents too. Xi has stroked this issue in particular because his intended legacy depends on it.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,106
136
I disagree. I think we should allow Ukraine to attack in kind. Nothing loses more than trying to "limit" a war when you're being invaded.
This is true, normally. The approach of NATO lead by the Biden Administration is a drip-drip-drip policy of pushing the boundaries in the offensive capabilities of the UAF. Part of this is necessity, the European nations came along slowly at first, except Britian. The second is to prevent Russia from over-reacting to a sudden uptick in the UAF's ability and then leading them to counter by introducing chemical warfare into the battlespace (or worse). This is all as best I understand it.

That said, I do chomp at the bit when we take half measures that drag out the war; but I don't occupy the oval office.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,042
38,540
136
Either way this is another example where appeasement has backfired. For years everyone 'recognized' the one china policy in hope china would leave the status quo (that is Taiwan effectively as its own country); we should have declared Taiwan an independent country decades ago knowing if we didn't sooner or later what would happen (and yes i think it is a given that China will invade Taiwan - it is just a question of when).

Strategic ambiguity had it's role IMO, but I'm glad Biden has moved us to a position of strategic clarity. Really hope China sees what we've done to Russia and realizes it doesn't matter how much they try to prep their people for a crushed economy. They blockade Taiwan, a Pacific coalition blockades Malacca. While escorting ships to Taiwan, while sanctions pile up and they lose access to foreign markets.

We built a nice thing with the post WWII order, for the most part. It's worth saving.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,613
3,459
136
The only way to stop missile barrages, is your own offensive weapons.
Russia must be bombed into blackout conditions.
Russia must know that fire will be met with fire, or they will attack with impunity.

Deterrence means knowing Ukraine can strike back. They've never had that capability, we need to give it to them. We need to ensure a deterrence exists. That will only happen if Russian cities go dark.

Russia launched one of its biggest aerial assaults on Ukraine overnight.
A spokesman says the country has no capability to counter the weapons used.




It's like they're playing hockey with just a goalie and two defenders. (And still doing well considering)
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,574
7,637
136
Jaskalas isn't just advocating for Ukraine to attack Russia but for NATO and all western nations to attack Russia directly. He has been doing so repeatedly in this thread.

Us, or Ukraine if we supply them. I don't care which so long as it gets the job done.
I just figure we'd do a better / faster job at it.

And I will not back down for the need to stop an aggressor when they step outside their country. Especially in the direction of Europe and NATO.
What is new, is the incessant missile barrages. Russia is bombing all of Ukraine non-stop.
For this they must pay a price. In order to establish a deterrent.

Do you think deterrents are not necessary?
What would you do to end the missile barrages? Defense isn't enough.
Remember that every day / week we let this continue unanswered, we are letting people die.
This is not a game, it requires brinkmanship to solve.
 
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