Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Oh come on, I'm just having some fun with you. Like I said when people transparently lie like you're doing here it's always fun to play a game where you pretend they aren't. Can you confirm you'll be using 'the Afghanistan' from now on as this is purely about grammar?

On a related note it's good insight into your other posts - if you're willing to lie this transparently about something this trivial you're probably lying elsewhere.
You are stretching. But OK, it's all in good fun. The important thing is that there is no big war in the Ukraine.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
You are stretching. But OK, it's all in good fun. The important thing is that there is no big war in the Ukraine.
I sincerely hope there will not be, but that all depends on Russia. The west will never agree to their demand that NATO restrict its membership so Russia is going to have to learn to live with it.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
I sincerely hope there will not be, but that all depends on Russia. The west will never agree to their demand that NATO restrict its membership so Russia is going to have to learn to live with it.
Russia will live with it, by keeping troops on its western borders and maintaining new status quo. Then NATO can decide how close it us comfortable with its troops being to Russian troops. And the answer is going to be pretty far, whether they officially agree to restrict the Ukraine from joining or not.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
Russia will live with it, by keeping troops on its western borders and maintaining new status quo. Then NATO can decide how close it us comfortable with its troops being to Russian troops. And the answer is going to be pretty far, whether they officially agree to restrict the Ukraine from joining or not.
Hey if Russia wants to waste its money in forward deploying a bunch of troops all the better for the rest of us as that’s money they aren’t spending to make mischief elsewhere.

I think we both agree that Russia is a rogue state at this point so the weaker we can make them the better.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Hey if Russia wants to waste its money in forward deploying a bunch of troops all the better for the rest of us as that’s money they aren’t spending to make mischief elsewhere.
I think we both agree that Russia is a rogue state at this point so the weaker we can make them the better.
US needs a reasonably strong Russia that does not become a client state of China. The Ukraine is a distraction. NATO will never admit it anyways, but instead of just making it official and moving on, they are pushing Russia into China's arms for no reason.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
US needs a reasonably strong Russia that does not become a client state of China. The Ukraine is a distraction. NATO will never admit it anyways, but instead of just making it official and moving on, they are pushing Russia into China's arms for no reason.
Yes, appeasement of aggressive dictators has a great historical track record.

Russia’s primary exports are becoming increasingly irrelevant, they will most likely get weaker as time goes on, not stronger, and as they weaken they will probably go increasingly rogue. Better to start wearing them down now.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Yes, appeasement of aggressive dictators has a great historical track record.
Russia’s primary exports are becoming increasingly irrelevant, they will most likely get weaker as time goes on, not stronger, and as they weaken they will probably go increasingly rogue. Better to start wearing them down now.
Wishful thinking there, but OK.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
Wishful thinking there, but OK.
It’s not wishful at all, because it means an even more aggressive Russia. I would love to be wrong.

The issue is that Russia has little of value outside its oil and gas sector, which comprises nearly 50% of their exports and close to 15% of GDP. The value of those exports is going to seriously decline in the not too distant future. What are they going to replace it with?
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
It’s not wishful at all, because it means an even more aggressive Russia. I would love to be wrong.
The issue is that Russia has little of value outside its oil and gas sector, which comprises nearly 50% of their exports and close to 15% of GDP. The value of those exports is going to seriously decline in the not too distant future. What are they going to replace it with?
Services economy. Who knows. It's going to be much more distant future than you think.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Services economy? Lol. Now THAT’S some wishful thinking.
OK, look, I am not Nostradamus, and neither are you. They have human capital and they have natural resources. How it's deployed in the future, who knows. Smart statesmen try to divide their geopolitical rivals, not bring them together into alliances.

Meanwhile
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
OK, look, I am not Nostradamus, and neither are you. They have human capital and they have natural resources. How it's deployed in the future, who knows. Smart statesmen try to divide their geopolitical rivals, not bring them together into alliances.
The Russian economy is simply not competitive internationally and there is no reason to believe that will change any time soon. They are in deep shit once oil and gas lose their value.

Meanwhile
Nobody has been arguing with you on this, just that it is a real possibility that should be taken seriously given Russia’s past (and current!) invasions.

Again, there’s a reason Russia’s neighbors want to join NATO - it’s because Russia keeps invading them.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
They are transitioning from lying about an imminent invasion to lying that invasion didn't happen because of something they did. Progress!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
They are transitioning from lying about an imminent invasion to lying that invasion didn't happen because of something they did. Progress!
The guy who just spent several pages transparently lying is mad about someone else lying. Lol.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
The guy who just spent several pages transparently lying is mad about someone else lying. Lol.
That's your interpretation, but once you do some self reflection, you might come to the conclusion that I was spot on while you fell for the hysteria, hook, line, and sinker.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,618
12,753
146
Anyone else remember the hysteria of Y2K? I mean, thousands of programmers put in millions of man-hours to prevent the apocalypse, and it didn't even happen! Hilarious!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,810
49,497
136
That's your interpretation, but once you do some self reflection, you might come to the conclusion that I was spot on while you fell for the hysteria, hook, line, and sinker.
Except of course I didn't, lol. It's funny if you read through this thread basically no one was saying that Russia was surely going to invade but you just kept trying to claim people were. Then of course you tried to make some insane claim that the US government and media was trying to lie its way into a conflict, something that is pretty comically false.

I did out you as a liar in this thread though, something I'll be sure to remind you of in the future.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Except of course I didn't, lol. It's funny if you read through this thread basically no one was saying that Russia was surely going to invade but you just kept trying to claim people were. Then of course you tried to make some insane claim that the US government and media was trying to lie its way into a conflict, something that is pretty comically false.

I did out you as a liar in this thread though, something I'll be sure to remind you of in the future.
I am sure you convinced yourself of that. Enjoy.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,546
13,113
136
We all sympathize with the Ukraine. They thought they would gain EU membership, but instead they lost Crimea and gained a separatist conflict. That's a massive case of blue balls. Can't help but feel sorry for them.

Ukraine did a whole uprooting of its corrupt infestation in government and elsewhere, to meet criteria for joining NATO and EU.
That was the one voice of the Ukrainian people when they chose Zelenskyy in a presidential election (an election, as I understand that was heavily influenced by Russia as well), but the people came out on top anyway, with the clear message and mandate ... close the windows on this corruption and get the EU and NATO thing rolling.

The people have spoken.

If we do nothing Ukraine will likely soon be a third world Russian proxy state breathing down Polands neck.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,043
38,540
136
US needs a reasonably strong Russia that does not become a client state of China. The Ukraine is a distraction. NATO will never admit it anyways, but instead of just making it official and moving on, they are pushing Russia into China's arms for no reason.


China and Russia made up some time ago. They're both authoritarian regimes trying to stamp out democracy and self-determination, and can act on it. Having common agendas makes them natural partners, not NATO really. The lop sided presence in Europe isn't particularly worrisome for China. And Russia is already at side kick status, sorry.

So two more narratives of yours that don't hold up. I hope Putin understands you think he should just waste money and stage his troops in the field indefinitely. I'd be ok with that. Emulating Hitler 1938 would be a bad move. Damn Ukrainians, wanting to have a say in their own futures. So distracting. I bet that nice long border with Poland should make for a long, distracting, expensive occupation should Putin jump. No big war though, yes, though needing deterrence around bullies is indeed a great reason to acquire it. If only there were no reason for NATO to exist... Instead, two Stalin-esque autocratic regimes engaged in expansionist military action 'to protect their historical lands and rights' are howling that countries who want to be left alone are "maintaining ideologized Cold War approaches." Heh, that's some funny shit.
 
Last edited:

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,043
38,540
136
Player 3 has entered the game


Defensive alliances hurt dictator feels, why can't you let us invade and bully who we want? Waaaaaa.

Sovereignty doesn't apply to small countries, why can't you Westerners understand? Waaaaa.

Fuck off Xi, shouldn't you be busy sportswashing your genocide with Chinese characteristics?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
It's weird how both Republicans and Democrats agree in America remaining at war all the time.

Afghanistan war is over??! No good. Now fabricate more bullshit to American people so we can start another bullshit war. Your war machine is at work.
 

boxleitnerb

Platinum Member
Nov 1, 2011
2,601
2
81
Hypothetical question:
If Russian and Chinese troops were staged in Mexico, Cuba etc. what would the US do?
It's much too simple to paint Russia as the only aggressor here. It doesn't justify beginning a war, but it explains why they feel threatened - and with good reason.

Both sides should make concessions. There is no good and evil here, the world is not that simple, even if stupid politicians and media want us to think that to make us afraid, angry, hateful and get votes.
And honestly, look at all the wars and interventions the US started the last 50 years. How did that thing go: Who lives in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones...
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,355
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Hypothetical question:
If Russian and Chinese troops were staged in Mexico, Cuba etc. what would the US do?
It's much too simple to paint Russia as the only aggressor here. It doesn't justify beginning a war, but it explains why they feel threatened - and with good reason.

Both sides should make concessions. There is no good and evil here, the world is not that simple, even if stupid politicians and media want us to think that to make us afraid, angry, hateful and get votes.
And honestly, look at all the wars and interventions the US started the last 50 years. How did that thing go: Who lives in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones...
NATO is a defensive alliance. The US and its allies are not in Ukraine. And we wouldn't invade Canada if a foreign power was defensively placing troops adjacent to our southern border.

Russia has already invaded it's neighbors - Georgia and Ukraine - so other neighbors are rightfully scared of Russia and their habit of regional imperialism, this NATO allies seek military assurances and non-allied countries seek weapons to fight off invaders. Not sure why you want to gloss over those very important details and blame both sides.
 
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