Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
Ehm simple no, eastern European countries joined NATO after the collapse of USSR not because Russian aggression.

Saying this, im not legitimize what Putin does today in Ukraine and with all Europeans Im stating that this behavior is simple unacceptable. Putin and unfortunately all Russians will suffer the consequences of their actions with severe economic sanctions from EU, US, Canada, Japan, Korea etc.

LIVE NOW: press conference following the special #EUCO on the situation in Ukraine

This statement lol.

Russian aggression may have been a part of the function of the USSR...
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Also an example from another time, the Cuba crisis. If you understand why US didn’t want nuclear missiles on Cuba, then you can also understand why Russia don’t want NATO troops too close to their borders. (And this only applies because Putin is a dictator that doesn’t want democracy and our values, destabilizing his power)
But several NATO member nations do directly border Russia. Ukraine would/will only be another.


In particular Poland and the Baltic states:

 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
But several NATO member nations do directly border Russia. Ukraine would/will only be another.

Yeah, I don't get why anyone would believe the excuse that Russia does not want NATO next to its border. NATO is already next to its border, and taking Ukraine will mean even more NATO members right next to its border. It's a transparent lie.
 

skooma

Senior member
Apr 13, 2006
635
28
91
According to Russia, NATO poses a huge security threat. According to the Western propaganda, NATO is like a peacekeeping force, rofl.

Considering the geography or Ukraine, Russia has a valid point. History has shown this.
you keep saying russia when you really mean putin
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,814
136
NATO is only a threat to Russian ambitions to occasionally conquer its neighbors. That's it.

The alliance has generally kept heavy and advanced weapons out of the border nations unless provoked by aggressive Russian actions (2008 Georgia war, 2014 Annex of Crimea, etc). The Russians created the very conditions they complain about because Putin is a paranoid despotic dick who thinks he should get to do whatever he wants to his neighbors.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Poland joined NATO in 1999, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Hungary joined NATO in 1999, at the time there was no threat from Russia

Bulgaria joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Estonia joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Latvia joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Lithuania joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Romania joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia
Slovakia joined NATO in 2004, at the time there was no threat from Russia

They sure had reasons to join NATO because of the past, but the situation in 1999/2004 was way different than today.
As I have said before, Russia will never allow Ukraine to join NATO, either we like it or not that is a fact.
And as Ihave said before , that is not legitimize by my part the invasion of Ukraine today, im just pointing out the facts.

Whenever a former occupied country declared independence from the USSR after the collapse of the wall, Russia's immediate response (yes, peaceful man Gorbachev), was to send tanks into their capitals to terrorize these countries into staying within the USSR.

To believe that joining NATO was outside of the concept of "no threat from Russia" is extremely naive. These countries are and were always existing under the threat of Russia. That has never changed. It has always been the case. No offense, but I think these people, living on the borders of this terrorist empire, understand their reality better than you do.

Russia routinely engages in "military training operations" along their borders with Northern European countries, especially along the Baltics. This is an annual, well, year-long thing that they deal with since (2nd) independence in 1991. I guess you and others might complain that they were just "overblown" in thinking that this was aggression from Russia, but that only looks ever the more foolish after what they've been doing in Ukraine over the last month, no? well...the last 8 years.

I don't know--maybe the nations that have lived under and near the terror of Russian occupation understand this better than armchair westerners?
 
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biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,403
4,966
136
But several NATO member nations do directly border Russia. Ukraine would/will only be another.


In particular Poland and the Baltic states:

And if they weren't, they had been invaded long time ago.

Poland has never been a part of the Sovjetunion.

And I don't think Moldova should feel safe.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,403
4,966
136
Yeah, I don't get why anyone would believe the excuse that Russia does not want NATO next to its border. NATO is already next to its border, and taking Ukraine will mean even more NATO members right next to its border. It's a transparent lie.
No, they're really not afraid of being attacked, but it is a power play. Putin wants to assert dominance and wants puppet dictators he can control. The more the better.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
Just got done watching the 1983 TV movie "The Day After" Could this be the beginning of something bigger. Something more tragic? Could we get into a necular war with Russia?

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
NATO is only a threat to Russian ambitions to occasionally conquer its neighbors. That's it.

The alliance has generally kept heavy and advanced weapons out of the border nations unless provoked by aggressive Russian actions (2008 Georgia war, 2014 Annex of Crimea, etc). The Russians created the very conditions they complain about because Putin is a paranoid despotic dick who thinks he should get to do whatever he wants to his neighbors.

So much this. It boggles my mind that so-called educated adults don't understand what Putin means when he says "threat."

Threat = not being allowed to occupy and terrorize and ruin independent nations as he sees fit.

that's the bottom line. So, yes--understand what he's complaining about, but then realize that it's fucking horseshit. There is no room for negotiating with that kind of childish pettiness. Republicans that defend Putin in trying to compare is feeling of being threatened need to go beyond understanding what he means by "threat," and actually apply it to some form of rational negotiation. E.g: there is no negotiation with that kind of mentality.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
And if they weren't, they had been invaded long time ago.

Poland has never been a part of the Sovjetunion.

And I don't think Moldova should feel safe.
I have heard on many occasions that at least parts of Poland have been alternately part of Russia and part of Poland going back historically. It's no surprise that Poland wants protection against possible Russian aggressions and territorial annexation anxieties. Putin is the latest exploding pimple on the face of Russian aggression syndrome.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Just got done watching the 1983 TV movie "The Day After" Could this be the beginning of something bigger. Something more tragic? Could we get into a necular war with Russia?

View attachment 57905
The hydrogen bomb was history's exclamation mark. It marked the end of all out war for technically advanced major nations. There will be no nuclear all out war between Russia and the USA (well, if there is, I won't last a day because I am at ground zero). However, everyone with the power to launch it (and stop it) knows it would be SUICIDE PURE AND SIMPLE. Info came out that generals under Trump were prepared to cut him off at the knees if he tried it.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,403
4,966
136
I have heard on many occasions that at least parts of Poland have been alternately part of Russia and part of Poland going back historically. It's no surprise that Poland wants protection against possible Russian aggressions and territorial annexation anxieties. Putin is the latest exploding pimple on the face of Russian aggression syndrome.
That is true, also their title of their national anthem:
Poland Is Not Yet Lost
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,867
34,814
136
Just incredibly surreal to see Poroshenko showing off his AK on TV and the government telling Kyiv residents to prepare Molotov cocktails.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,306
136
Just incredibly surreal to see Poroshenko showing off his AK on TV and the government telling Kyiv residents to prepare Molotov cocktails.
I imagine those Molotov cocktails will be created, maybe hundreds of thousands. It won't be party time for Russian foot soldiers.
 
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