Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,058
38,566
136
Still got half of March left, c'mon Putin! You've got a Russian tradition to uphold damnit.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,954
20,220
136
I called this as a loss for Russia on February 26. Way less than 48 hours into the invasion. Not sure why so many so-called military experts didn't recognize it and still don't recognize it. Not sure why it's taking Putin so long to recognize it either. While I'm sure his people are hiding the extent of the failure but you can't hide all this.

Ditto. Well not quite as strongly but it seemed evident pretty quickly that this was not going well for Russia. Also from Feb 26

It's looking a bit like Putin may have miscalculated here more than a little.
 
Reactions: dank69

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,778
146
I'm extremely surprised this has gone on this long. I fully expected Russia to more or less roll over Ukrainian defenses within the first week. I'm happy I was wrong...but still expect Russia to finally win...in one form or another. (how much damage Russia can tolerate will be the determining factor to win/lose and by how much.) I wouldn't be surprised...or disappointed to see Putin "have a heart attack" and calmer heads prevail in Russia however.
I’m not. I’m now predicting a slow grind where Ukraine halts and begins to recover areas lost.

Ukraines moral is high and they are being resupplied.

The Russian army appears to be mostly rotten from the conscripts all the way to the upper echelons.

Putin will continue to wratchet the pressure up until something gives. I’m just not sure if it will be Ukraine capitulating, Putins position as President/Dictator crumbling, or full blown war with NATO due to direct attack or Russia stepping over the line (genocide, chemical or nuclear attack on UK)
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,578
2,913
136
We declared war on Japan following the December 7, 1941 attacks on Pearl Harbor. Germany and Italy declared war on us a few days later.
Precisely my point. Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us many days after the fact. So why was our primary focus during the war the conflict in Europe and not the pacific theater? After all Japan attacked us and precipitated our entry into the war. Why was our focus on the nation/axis that didn't foment our entry into the war?
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,573
5,096
136
Precisely my point. Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us many days after the fact. So why was our primary focus during the war the conflict in Europe and not the pacific theater? After all Japan attacked us and precipitated our entry into the war. Why was our focus on the nation/axis that didn't foment our entry into the war?
Well, there certainly was a "Germany First" push in Congress and in parts of Roosevelt's admin, himself included. But Roosevelt wavered back and forth on that...remember that less than 5 mos. after Pearl Harbor the U.S. did bomb Tokyo. Symbolic, I know, but even that counts. The U.S. Navy's victory in Midway was just 6 months after Pearl Harbor...

But many back then made the case that Europe, and GB especially, was more important than the Far East. And we'd had supply lines established to GB/Europe better than to the Philippines, Midway, etc.

And building aircraft carriers, destroyers, battleships takes a bit longer than building bombers, fighters, rifles, tanks, etc., so the escalation in the Pacific was slower to spot.?
 
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Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,431
3,535
126
Precisely my point. Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us many days after the fact. So why was our primary focus during the war the conflict in Europe and not the pacific theater? After all Japan attacked us and precipitated our entry into the war. Why was our focus on the nation/axis that didn't foment our entry into the war?
There were conversations earlier in the year well before Pearl here it was agreed Germany was the bigger threat. This was due to the very real fear that they might defeat the Soviets and turn continental Europe into an unassailable fortress. The Japanese had a larger logistical hurdle in the Pacific that would theoretically slow them down. And when it didn't the defeat of naval forces at Java, the Indian ocean and Pearl meant the Allies we're better suited to defense. Also keep in mind the Pacific got some 300,000 US troops deployed in the first 6 months compared to 100,000 to Europe and the first major offensive was in the Pacific (Guadalcanal). Men and material deployments would remain relatively equal until 1944.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,303
136
I’m not. I’m now predicting a slow grind where Ukraine halts and begins to recover areas lost.

Ukraines moral is high and they are being resupplied.

The Russian army appears to be mostly rotten from the conscripts all the way to the upper echelons.

Putin will continue to wratchet the pressure up until something gives. I’m just not sure if it will be Ukraine capitulating, Putins position as President/Dictator crumbling, or full blown war with NATO due to direct attack or Russia stepping over the line (genocide, chemical or nuclear attack on UK)
Predicting? They've recaptured territory consistently since the first weekend of the invasion, and within the past few days have made some significant recaptures. This has been a total failure of an invasion on every front. The only battles Russia can count as "successful" are shelling civilian areas and temporarily holding supermarkets just long enough to steal some food for their starving troops.

And then a whole bunch of war crimes because they know they can just say "fake news" and nobody can do anything about it.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,704
5,434
136
I'm extremely surprised this has gone on this long. I fully expected Russia to more or less roll over Ukrainian defenses within the first week. I'm happy I was wrong...but still expect Russia to finally win...in one form or another. (how much damage Russia can tolerate will be the determining factor to win/lose and by how much.) I wouldn't be surprised...or disappointed to see Putin "have a heart attack" and calmer heads prevail in Russia however.
Disagree.

Russia is going to lose.

#1 factor: The Ukraine air force still exists and is flying missions.


It does not matter who you are, without air superiority your not going to win any sort of invasion or occupation.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
Disagree.

Russia is going to lose.

#1 factor: The Ukraine air force still exists and is flying missions.


It does not matter who you are, without air superiority your not going to win any sort of invasion or occupation.

It really is remarkable that for all their vaunted SAM systems and relatively advanced fighters on tap that would supposedly shut down NATO they can't suppress what is a third rate air force on the Ukrainian side.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,844
8,309
136
Precisely my point. Japan attacked us. Germany declared war on us many days after the fact. So why was our primary focus during the war the conflict in Europe and not the pacific theater? After all Japan attacked us and precipitated our entry into the war. Why was our focus on the nation/axis that didn't foment our entry into the war?
I'll give my offhanded take. Britain was a pretty close ally and as it turned out the pretty much the only European country in opposition to the Axis that didn't fall to Nazi occupation. I think Germany was a greater threat than the Japanese (also Germany was allied with Italy). However, I'm not aware that we didn't take the threat of Japan very seriously. I've never heard that before.
 

adamsleath

Member
May 4, 2007
118
40
101
nfi.

how many troops, planes etc does russia have left? shit loads.

still. dis is no crimea.
===

as for ww2. FDR, churchill and stalin ended up dividing europe up amongst themselves. there were agreements, plans, implementation. overwhelming material and human resource advantage to the allies versus the axis. ww2 history is well documented.

and the us has had hegemony ever since, imf, nato, the global financial system. prior to this period the british empire , its territories and its financial range were un matched.
then ww2 happened. and now you have China. the monster you helped to make into an economic GodZilla.

with the forces at russia's disposal they could have blitzkrieged and steamrolled from one end of ukraine to the other. for some reason they did not do that. more like a half hearted slow grind siege .

ukraine cannot win a full scale all in attack from russia. without allied assistance. no way .
but that isn't how this slow crawl thing has been done thus far.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,844
8,309
136
Seems like it's the same old story everywhere

You know what the hip crowd used to say during the 1960's here in America ? "Don't trust anyone over 30." Staying young ain't easy. Ah, but getting old just plain sucks...

A couple of books: Jerry Rubin's "Do it." Abbie Hoffman's "Revolution for the Hell of it."

Do It!: Scenarios of the Revolution by Jerry Rubin ...
https://www.goodreads.com › book › show


This book is a declaration of war between generations.. Its an invitation for the kids to leave homes, burn down their schools and create a new society upon the ...
 
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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,782
1,540
126

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,822
4,454
106
how many troops, planes etc does russia have left? shit loads.
In what state of repair? And have they got crews for the gear? Or will they draft conscripts?

Given that the mighty Russian military is happy to take foreign fighters to help out pretty much says it all. They are either running out of troops, or some analyst figures finally got to Putin and he saw that he needs a shit tonne more troops to hold Ukraine.

Atm I think Putin's strategy is to wait for the Ukraine's President to eat a bullet and then do a deal with the next incoming leadership.

Anything else will be a complete loss of face for Putin and his Empire.
 

adamsleath

Member
May 4, 2007
118
40
101
In what state of repair? And have they got crews for the gear? Or will they draft conscripts?

Given that the mighty Russian military is happy to take foreign fighters to help out pretty much says it all. They are either running out of troops, or some analyst figures finally got to Putin and he saw that he needs a shit tonne more troops to hold Ukraine.

Atm I think Putin's strategy is to wait for the Ukraine's President to eat a bullet and then do a deal with the next incoming leadership.

Anything else will be a complete loss of face for Putin and his Empire.
despite putin's lame rhetoric, Russia, unlike in ww2, has not been attacked, nor threatened by ukraine or nato or europe. with imminent invasions etc. so in terms of a national imperative to defeat a perilous enemy. we have the situation as it is now. where putin for his reasons (tenure, internal politics, show of power as their leader) has pushed for the annexation of ukraine. whatever he can get out of it.

for the people of russia i mean. there is not the impetus. crimea was a cake walk. diifferent situation. im trying to get a handle on this thing.

To me it seems like a massive waste of time. an anachronistic venture.
and a shortage of Good well trained troops. yeh . may well be. their military has atrophied it seems. complacent in superiority maybe and virtually useless with poor military leadership - just Dufus Majoris spinning his rhetoric.

so they've gone in there made a mess. lost some troops and some hardware, lost some world stage prestige in my opinion.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,396
11,751
136
You know what the hip crowd used to say during the 1960's here in America ? "Don't trust anyone over 30." Staying young ain't easy. Ah, but getting old just plain sucks...

A couple of books: Jerry Rubin's "Do it." Abbie Hoffman's "Revolution for the Hell of it."

Do It!: Scenarios of the Revolution by Jerry Rubin ...
https://www.goodreads.com › book › show


This book is a declaration of war between generations.. Its an invitation for the kids to leave homes, burn down their schools and create a new society upon the ...

Turn on, tune in, drop out.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,822
4,454
106
Reactions: adamsleath

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
971
360
136
It isn't just an accusation. Azovs are Nazis.

I think it's was directly from an old cold war playbook. Look up Operation Gladio Arsewoods stay behind insurgents mission drift.

 
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m8d

Senior member
Nov 5, 2012
635
1,022
136
Putin really exposed his country. This is why I don't buy this Russia is trying to provoke the US into war. They have their hands full already with Ukraine, let alone a real Superpower, with a real military in the US.
Here China chance to see how their weapons do in combat.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,002
14,532
146
It isn't just an accusation. Azovs are Nazis.

I think it's was directly from an old cold war playbook. Look up Operation Gladio Arsewoods stay behind insurgents mission drift.


OK, let's put this to bed, shall we?

It's easily done with one simple fact: The Ukrainian President is a JEW who won with 73% of the vote. Who faced death threats by the small minority of neo-Nazis in his country.

This alone proves Ukraine was and is in NO DANGER of "Nazification."
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,815
49,510
136
It isn't just an accusation. Azovs are Nazis.

I think it's was directly from an old cold war playbook. Look up Operation Gladio Arsewoods stay behind insurgents mission drift.

I think we would all agree if there is any country that’s reminiscent of the Nazis in this case it is Russia.

This is not a complicated issue - Ukraine was drifting out of Russia’s orbit and Putin didn’t like it so he invaded them. Because that’s not a legitimate justification for war Russia made up a bunch of lies about Nazis and nukes and bio weapons attached to birds or whatever.
 
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