Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,804
29,555
146
I get it, I don't ever want to see a mushroom cloud over Russia, but how do you measure one big boom against the thousands of lives already snuffed out, and the thousands more that will die? The calculus of murder isn't something anyone wants to think about, but we're dealing with a man that will kill any number of people to reach his own goals. Where is the line that can't be crossed?

This is amazing to me that you think you can judge a guy like Putin without a trial first.

Where the hell do you get all this evidence that has "convinced" you of some sort of crimes that he has committed, without a trial commencing and until a judge or jury hand down a verdict? Without a proper investigation? How are you able to think about these things without a court decided the outcome?

How is this even possible?
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,695
5,428
136
This is amazing to me that you think you can judge a guy like Putin without a trial first.

Where the hell do you get all this evidence that has "convinced" you of some sort of crimes that he has committed, without a trial commencing and until a judge or jury hand down a verdict? Without a proper investigation? How are you able to think about these things without a court decided the outcome?

How is this even possible?
As a leader of a nation and the commander of its military Putin is a legitimate military target.

The war crimes associated with Putin are quite obvious, and a different subject. But yea, guilty as it comes. In the unlikely event a trial is possible, that would be best. But that seems unlikely.

Heck the whole subject is very unlikely. Nobody is going to drop a nuke on Russia or invade Russia anytime soon. Unless of course Russia nukes something, then it will be go time.

If Russia does toss a nuke, no trial possible, decapitation strikes are the way to go. Take the head off the monster.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
Well, from within Russia somehow. The Kremlin has gone to great lengths to protect itself from a military coup from within. I don't know how robust that is, but have read some material on it. High ranking military there are quite restrained.

Yeah, it would probably be a joint military/fsb/gru decision. Although, you can insulate yourself all you want, but if there is unity in the military to depose Putin wither force it’s hard to see what could stop them.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
This is amazing to me that you think you can judge a guy like Putin without a trial first.

Where the hell do you get all this evidence that has "convinced" you of some sort of crimes that he has committed, without a trial commencing and until a judge or jury hand down a verdict? Without a proper investigation? How are you able to think about these things without a court decided the outcome?

How is this even possible?

This is a beautiful post.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,695
5,428
136
I'm having difficulty following your post. Could you provide a summary or roadmap of the key points? Thanks.
The tank in question is a m1a2 SEP.

The trees in the background appear to be sweetgum trees and longleaf* pine.
*longleaf pine is sometimes referred to as Georgia pine

These trees are typically not found in Ukraine. They are far more common in the southeast USA.


If the US was to transfer tanks over to Ukraine, it would most likely be m1a1s, like the ones it gave to Iraq.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,836
10,236
136
As a leader of a nation and the commander of its military Putin is a legitimate military target.

The war crimes associated with Putin are quite obvious, and a different subject. But yea, guilty as it comes. In the unlikely event a trial is possible, that would be best. But that seems unlikely.

Heck the whole subject is very unlikely. Nobody is going to drop a nuke on Russia or invade Russia anytime soon. Unless of course Russia nukes something, then it will be go time.

If Russia does toss a nuke, no trial possible, decapitation strikes are the way to go. Take the head off the monster.
Zin wasn't being serious. He was being facetious because Greenman always claims there is no way to know if a republican, especially Trump, is guilty of anything without a trial.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,840
13,765
146
As a leader of a nation and the commander of its military Putin is a legitimate military target.

The war crimes associated with Putin are quite obvious, and a different subject. But yea, guilty as it comes. In the unlikely event a trial is possible, that would be best. But that seems unlikely.

Heck the whole subject is very unlikely. Nobody is going to drop a nuke on Russia or invade Russia anytime soon. Unless of course Russia nukes something, then it will be go time.

If Russia does toss a nuke, no trial possible, decapitation strikes are the way to go. Take the head off the monster.


If you still haven’t gotten it, Zins post was a joke
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,769
916
126
Honestly, a good deal for us. We can just offload older inventory instead of refurbishing stuff, and Ukraine is going to pay for some stuff anyway under the lend/lease program that has been set up.
Excalibur is pretty new with a shelf life of 30 years or so.

I thought the Su-35, its array of munitions and the S-400 along with its sublayers were near peer to the USAF.
9 months ago.

My eyes have very much been opened since.

It's clear now much of their purported weaponry is actually vapourware or plain doesn't work.

If the RuAF were unable to surpress and destroy the Ukrainian S-300s, a system they should throughly have understood the weaknesses of, then what chance have they against something foreign to them?

I'm sure US intelligence also played it up and went with the worst case assumptions. Better to be surprised at how bad they are instead of being overrun.

It'll be interesting to see what Ukraine does next. They can push while Russian forces are in disarray or they can fortify the gains made, play it safe and build up again for another push. Guess it'll depend on the intelligence they get on whether Russia will be able to mount an attack.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,567
7,620
136
Guess it'll depend on the intelligence they get on whether Russia will be able to mount an attack.

About that....
Oh, and it gets better. Those mythical Russian reinforcements met the Ukrainians on the road to Kupiansk. And were annihilated.
Guess you cannot just pick men up off the street and square off against a professional army trained and equipped by NATO.

In 6 months, we created the second greatest ground army on the planet.
If nuclear weapons were not in play, we'd meet the Ukrainians at the Alaskan border.

The Russian Army Is Losing A Battalion Every Day
Recruitment fell short of goals, but the Russian army did manage to form the new 3rd Army Corps with 10,000 or more troops and hundreds of T-80 and T-90 tanks and BMP-3 fighting vehicles. The 3rd AC raced into northeast Ukraine last week—and immediately suffered heavy losses, essentially resetting the Kremlin’s reset effort.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
136
...................
It'll be interesting to see what Ukraine does next. They can push while Russian forces are in disarray or they can fortify the gains made, play it safe and build up again for another push. Guess it'll depend on the intelligence they get on whether Russia will be able to mount an attack.
Up to now there has been very little analysis of a realistic endgame. Stopping at the border and waiting for sanctions to work is a loosing strategy. Stalin , sorry, Pukin is not coming out with his hands up any time soon, or never. Baring a coup, and that's very unlikely at this point, present thinking has offered up no approach to forcing Russia to do anything once the border is covered. As you say Its obvious that UKR must "launch another push "and take the fight to Moscow.
Lets not be nervous about nukes. NATO has enough to erase Russia and Pukin is not suicidal. Once Moscow is under siege , then the military will intervene. Fear of this bully's nuclear threat , which he has made numerous times just in this war without acting on, is never gonna repatriate POWs and kidnapped civilians, force demilitarization or enforce reparations payments or take Pukin and his Generals to the ICC or a firing squad, either is fine by me. Other than threatening Moscow directly with conventional defeat there is no other practical suggestion to forcing a settlement on obvious UKR terms.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
Up to now there has been very little analysis of a realistic endgame. Stopping at the border and waiting for sanctions to work is a loosing strategy. Stalin , sorry, Pukin is not coming out with his hands up any time soon, or never. Baring a coup, and that's very unlikely at this point, present thinking has offered up no approach to forcing Russia to do anything once the border is covered. As you say Its obvious that UKR must "launch another push "and take the fight to Moscow.
Lets not be nervous about nukes. NATO has enough to erase Russia and Pukin is not suicidal. Once Moscow is under siege , then the military will intervene. Fear of this bully's nuclear threat , which he has made numerous times just in this war without acting on, is never gonna repatriate POWs and kidnapped civilians, force demilitarization or enforce reparations payments or take Pukin and his Generals to the ICC or a firing squad, either is fine by me. Other than threatening Moscow directly with conventional defeat there is no other practical suggestion to forcing a settlement on obvious UKR terms.

North Korea. Mine a DMZ along the border.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,567
7,620
136
Up to now there has been very little analysis of a realistic endgame. Stopping at the border and waiting for sanctions to work is a loosing strategy.

Let's wait until Crimea is back before discussing what comes after.
May not be a need to move troops inside Russia.
And it would be suicidal for Ukraine to lose western support by doing so.
 
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