Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,761
34,641
136
Belarus might be better off in the long term by joining Ukraine. I'm not sure what their public sentiment is on Russia vs Ukraine. People I know from Belarus readily admit that it is a puppet of Russia but they are actually OK with that.

My understanding is that fighting in Ukraine on behalf of Russia is likely to be quite unpopular, like military mutiny level unpopular. Since Luka relies on the military to maintain his rule you can see the conundrum.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
136
British and American spies believe there is 'credible intelligence' to suggest the Russian president is preparing an attack that will turn the war effort in his favour after coming to the realisation that the war was 'a colossal mistake'...

Putin is understood to be planning land-grab of four regions said to have voted overwhelmingly to join Russia after sham referendums in which residents were marched to the ballot box at gunpoint...

But there is concern that Putin is planning a nuclear attack west of the regions that would create a radiation dead zone and put a halt to Ukraine's so far successful counter-offensives...

There is little chance now of a nuclear strike. Any time up to now would have been the time to drop it. The earlier the better. But now ? No benefit waiting until all Russian armies are defeated and then dropping one. That's just stupid-lose the war and the peace ?
The US should give UKR several tactical nuclear artillery rounds. Let RU worry about the neighbor with equal skin in the game.That way, the gloves will come off if RU launches, UKR not having to wait on a terrified NATO response.

Best to be prepared but there is no info anywhere on what precisely the US response to a nuke will be. I saw a retired Air Force officer who was precise-the US would take out the Black Sea Fleet. In about 1/2 hr, he said.That is credible. So tell us,what is at stake for Russia exactly ?
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,262
9,331
146
The US should give UKR several tactical nuclear artillery rounds.
No. God no. Not one of us knows where that would lead. In the event that Putin actually uses a tactical nuke, our response should be "robust" but entirely non-nuclear. This is the way diplomacy works. This is the way we keep the high ground. World opinion matters.

I saw a retired Air Force officer who was precise-the US would take out the Black Sea Fleet. In about 1/2 hr, he said.That is credible.
Again, no. Our response has to be measured and proportionate. If we learned anything from the events that led to WWI, it's that tit for tat riding of the escalation ladder leads to a wholesale slaughter no one wants.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,992
38,409
136
Yeah I think he's going to do it

He doesn't really have other cards to play, and is losing the war abroad and at home. I think this asshole wants to be able to say "I told you I wasn't bluffing." Just another dick waving exercise to this autocrat.

Russians: either you pay the price of removing Putin or you pay the price of NATO doing it. You should opt for the one that allows you to stay alive and keep as much of your country intact as possible.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,761
34,641
136
Again, no. Our response has to be measured and proportionate. If we learned anything from the events that led to WWI, it's that tit for tat riding of the escalation ladder leads to a wholesale slaughter no one wants.

Oh I think this part is solidly on the table, at least any of it outside Russian territorial waters. Suffice it to say that Russian units in Ukraine would suddenly feel the full weight of conventional NATO power against them and it would make what the Ukrainians are doing to them feel like a massage.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,566
7,619
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Ukraine is not a member of NATO

I very much do not care about that distinction. Russia deserves complete annihilation for its genocide in Ukraine.
Simply blunting their offensive and engaging them outside their borders is a very measured response.

If Russia wants to expand this war, we must engage.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,761
34,641
136
The sign Belarus will actually attack would be them removing their own mines from the border. I haven't seen any reports of that. Ukraine has of course also heavily mined their own side now.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,566
7,619
136
The sign Belarus will actually attack would be them removing their own mines from the border. I haven't seen any reports of that. Ukraine has of course also heavily mined their own side now.

It is a very wide border. How heavily defended would the path to Lviv be?
Remember, Russia wants the polish border. Not just a few pieces of Ukraine - but the entirety of it.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,761
34,641
136
It is a very wide border. How heavily defended would the path to Lviv be?

Not in the wet season it ain't. The border is certainly being closely watched by Ukrainian and NATO intelligence.

The Belarusian army is widely regarded as one of the very worst in Europe. They probably freeze or run once the TDF bloodies their noses.
 

deustroop

Golden Member
Dec 12, 2010
1,916
354
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Up to this point diplomacy has had nothing to do with the game Pukin is playing and that is not likely to change. In fact UKR has said , if annexation goes forward there is nothing to talk about. You can imagine UKR's interest in diplomacy if a major city is obliterated.
The West should shoot conventional munitions while RU uses nukes ? That's like not hitting RU territory for fear of poking the bear. It gives Pukin a huge advantage out of fear.UKR will not accept that position. The US was afraid to give UKR modern weapons and still has some hesitation. But UKR has proved that to be an elitist view. So too with regard to Nukes. Let UKR decide where and when.
The only relations Pukin respects are force and power. Measured response is viewed as weakness.BTW, citing WWII is clearly misinformed. The advent there was the opposite of escalation, rather it was littered with compromise and futile concessions . The lesson of WWII is to go hard and fast and be the first to cry victory.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,828
8,301
136
-snip-
BTW, citing WWII is clearly misinformed. The advent there was the opposite of escalation, rather it was littered with compromise and futile concessions . The lesson of WWII is to go hard and fast and be the first to cry victory.
If you look again you will see that K1052's reference to history was to WWI.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,769
916
126
There is little chance now of a nuclear strike. Any time up to now would have been the time to drop it. The earlier the better. But now ? No benefit waiting until all Russian armies are defeated and then dropping one. That's just stupid-lose the war and the peace ?
The US should give UKR several tactical nuclear artillery rounds. Let RU worry about the neighbor with equal skin in the game.That way, the gloves will come off if RU launches, UKR not having to wait on a terrified NATO response.

Best to be prepared but there is no info anywhere on what precisely the US response to a nuke will be. I saw a retired Air Force officer who was precise-the US would take out the Black Sea Fleet. In about 1/2 hr, he said.That is credible. So tell us,what is at stake for Russia exactly ?
US doesn't have those rounds any more. The were desperation weapons for the Soviet hordes that were expected in WW3. The shells didn't even go far enough to keep the artillery team safe from the fallout.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,828
8,301
136
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,695
5,428
136
Lovely graphic, hope it's prescient:

It is rather sad.

Putin defeated,
But country destroyed,
And NATO give her a nice medal for winning,
While the place lies in ruins.

We can do better,
And to be fair the majority of Ukraine is not in ruins.
The orcs were stopped before it came to that.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,828
8,301
136
It is rather sad.

Putin defeated,
But country destroyed,
And NATO give her a nice medal for winning,
While the place lies in ruins.

We can do better,
And to be fair the majority of Ukraine is not in ruins.
The orcs were stopped before it came to that.
I don't see those as medals, but symbols of NATO and EU membership in the aftermath.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,695
5,428
136
I don't see those as medals, but symbols of NATO and EU membership in the aftermath.
We definitely need to get Ukraine in NATO. Ukrainians know how to fight and win. That is just self interest.

The EU should pull Ukraine in. Ukraine will see massive economic growth after the war, and Ukraine's massive agricultural area will be invaluable in these times of changing climate.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,761
34,641
136
Delusions of grandeur, or simply reaffirming their intent from the beginning?
If they can muster 100-200k men from the north, including Belarus, does Ukraine have enough men and ammo to hold a 3,000 km long line?

Russian state TV: “This is not the last referendum. Kharkiv, Kyiv and Poltava will follow. We are at the beginning. We will bring everyone back to the motherland.”

There are relatively few places where such a force could cross and it would not muster un-observed. It would be vulnerable to attack before it even crossed the border unlike last time. No this is not realistic in the slightest.
 
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