Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[kage69]

Ukrainian defenders are going to be hooked up proper for the winter fight, much more so than the cavemen they're fighting. Yeah, Goretec is shell material, they need more than that. Thankfully the US, UK, Lithuania, all the Scandis, they're sending the extreme cold weather gear/boots to Ukraine, plus heated tents and cold weather sleeping kits. Needs to hurry up though, much of it won't show until mid December. Snow almost here. Civilians still need everything though, and as others have mentioned the water and sanitation issues are serious. I saw Spain is sending 4 big 400kW generators, so they have the ability to power big, critical things I would imagine. Water and sewage stations? All I know for sure is if they need outhouses get them dug asap before the ground freezes. Chop chop.

 

[kage69]

Meanwhile, just ordinary Russian citizens. Wishing for a murder suicide.
I don't think we should oblige them, at least not with a first strike...
But still. If anyone thinks nuclear proliferation isn't an existential threat to your own life, to all our lives. Look no further than the human condition. We are utterly mad.

If we keep letting nations develop the bomb, they WILL be used. This is not a question of If.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591451434939293698

You've done the same thing in this thread, haven't you? I seem to recall myself, and others, pointing it out to you on more than one occasion.

Your back and forth from 'take them out!' to 'look at the crazy people wishing for WW3' is an odd thing to behold. Maybe don't use "we," stick to speaking for yourself? I don't feel mad.

Those aren't ordinary Russian citizens at all, just an unsurprisingly small group of pissed off imperialists. Some didn't look too fired up at all. Repeated defeats make people angry, they see their country crumbling away in a humiliating fashion. Oh well.

 

[Dave_5k]

Good look at HIMARS GMLRS inner circle (which is all Ukraine has), vs. what is possible with ATACMS ranges from Kherson. These are lower-end range estimates ("official" ranges) for ATACMS, while the GMLRS shown is a bit of a stretch on how far south it can actually reach from Kherson

https://twitter.com/x/status/1591493036428722183

 

[you2]

You can make such a demand but it will go nowhere as long as they are in control of the state.

Yes but part of the demand should be that Putin and all ministers responsible for planning and orchestration of the war turn themselves over to international law enforcement to stand trial for war crimes.

 

[Jaskalas]

You've done the same thing in this thread, haven't you? I seem to recall myself, and others, pointing it out to you on more than one occasion.

I don't call for first strike nuclear war.

I call for attacking Russian invaders to drive them off other people's land. To stop their acts of Genocide both in Ukraine AND abroad. Lest you forget they blocked a great amount of food from passing through the Black Sea. Their Genocide is not limited to Europe. I have EVER called for us to forcibly put an end to that. To drive Russians back to Russia. This is in the defense of life.

Are you incapable of seeing the difference between attacker and defender?

 

[Paratus]

*Downfall memes intensify*

We need someone to redo that meme with Putins head on Hitler.

 

[kage69]

I don't call for first strike nuclear war.

I call for attacking Russian invaders to drive them off other people's land. To stop their acts of Genocide both in Ukraine AND abroad. Lest you forget they blocked a great amount of food from passing through the Black Sea. Their Genocide is not limited to Europe. I have EVER called for us to forcibly put an end to that. To drive Russians back to Russia. This is in the defense of life.

Are you incapable of seeing the difference between attacker and defender?

You have advocated for the attack of Russian forces with NATO assets. That's WW3.

Russians are being driven back. Life is being defended.

Yes I must have forgotten about the other Russian genocide, the one not limited to Europe. Do refresh my memory.

 

[Drach]

Kherson today

 

[kage69]

Stand up guy that Zelenskyy.

https://imgur.com/hin3mw4

 

[Michael]

“
Here’s what we know:
Ukrainians in Kherson were celebrating Russia’s retreat but also told visiting New York Times journalists they feared Moscow would strike back.”

From NYT today. Is it ok if Ukrainians in Kherson express this concern as well or do they get scolded for “doom and gloom”?

You must provide LINKS to articles your reference. You have been asked to do this before.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Drach]

“
Here’s what we know:
Ukrainians in Kherson were celebrating Russia’s retreat but also told visiting New York Times journalists they feared Moscow would strike back.”

From NYT today. Is it ok if Ukrainians in Kherson express this concern as well or do they get scolded for “doom and gloom”?

Moscow will certainly strike back. I doubt anyone in Kherson thinks otherwise.
Slava Ukraini

 

[Dave_5k]

Stand up guy that Zelenskyy.

He has done an amazing job rallying international support and appealing directly to each country in their localized language and history

And (2) just as importantly, Zelenskyy has done an amazing job staying out of the day-to-day decisions fighting the war, for which his chief of the armed forces, General Valerii Zaluzhnyi, has been outstanding, along with nimble decentralized battlefield decision making completely unlike what they had just 10 years ago.

Local politics I can't really speak to, were a mess before the war, and will undoubtedly still be a mess after the war, but he has been the right man at the right time for leading Ukraine from the brink of annihilation to the brink of victory

 

[Michael]

“
Here’s what we know:
Ukrainians in Kherson were celebrating Russia’s retreat but also told visiting New York Times journalists they feared Moscow would strike back.”

From NYT today. Is it ok if Ukrainians in Kherson express this concern as well or do they get scolded for “doom and gloom”?

You must provide LINKS to articles your reference. You have been asked to do this before.

Perknose
Forum Director

Zero intention of changing my posting style.

Updates (short articles) on NYT iOS app have no share icon to give a link. I have already linked to update “thread” in the past and it scrolls.

So I quoted the actual article and stated the source and date (today).

There is no forum rule that links are required.

I think there is a rule of at least an understanding that you should not call out a mod (which you are acting as now), so go ahead and enforce whatever needs to be down there, but I actually looked for the link before posting and it is not available.

As a general statement - any post I make is pure opinion. I may or may not provide a link, but even if I do the link should not be relied on as I am selective as to what I provide or comment on. There is an ignore option. Use if you do not like my opinions.

Yes, there is, and yes, we will. Your truculent attitude is not welcomed here at all. There is but one legitimate venue to respectfully comment on moderator actions, the forum Moderator Disussions. Next time, please use that.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[Jaskalas]

Yes I must have forgotten about the other Russian genocide, the one not limited to Europe. Do refresh my memory.

• The war in Ukraine triggered a global food shortage
• Russian invasion of Ukraine has further aggravated the global food crisis

You don't turn a food basket into a mass grave without killing a whole lot of additional people elsewhere.

 

[deustroop]

You can make such a demand but it will go nowhere as long as they are in control of the state.

This
Unless the West defeats Moscow ( literally and figuratively) Ukr will not get appropriate reparations or the satisfaction of seeing fascist Pukin and his cronies at the end of a rope. No great minds have aired their contemplation of this : Its onto to Moscow or stop at the pre invasion borders and go " please send us Pukin ; please pay reparations." Really, does the West have the balls to face down the nuclear threat, march on Moscow and destroy the communist system in Russia while the West has the chance ? The preferred ending here will have Moscow under UN trusteeship directing political reform and paying reparations and maintaining a hanging tree out in front of the Kremlin. it must be clear even to the weakest Western state that anything less and Putin will be back.

 

[Michael]

Putin is getting older and after such a defeat, I am not so worried that he will be back if Russia is completely kicked out.

Russia being back, that is a different story. Same basic government left in place but a new strongman on top does not bode well.

Decent chance the whole federation falls apart as well, that will take Russia out of the picture for quite a while.

 

[Michael]

Kyiv Power Cuts Bring Cold Food, Scheduled Vacuuming, Struggling Businesses

Russia has targeted Ukraine’s electricity grid in an attempt to break civilians’ will, resulting in rolling power cuts in Kyiv. Residents are adapting.

www.wsj.com

WSJ article on how Ukrainians are coping with the reduced power in Kyiv.

Basically they are figuring out how to make it work but a struggle.

 

[kage69]

• The war in Ukraine triggered a global food shortage
• Russian invasion of Ukraine has further aggravated the global food crisis

You don't turn a food basket into a mass grave without killing a whole lot of additional people elsewhere.

Oh I'm very aware how a lack of food causes people to go hungry, the problem is attacking an adversary's means of production and infrastructure is a valid military tactic, even if we loathe the conflict itself. If the actions of Russia prevented those other countries from procuring food from anywhere else, you might have point, but right now the definition of genocide covers intentional acts of murder, rape, torture, and the intentional destruction of all that is Ukrainian, language and culture included.

If say Gambia gets invaded by Russians who prevent any and all deliveries of food, I will be the first to agree with you. Creating a global food crisis is still horrible, don't get me wrong, but if there is anyone else referring to that specifically as genocide it's news to me. Could you indicate where in those articles your opinion is corroborated? The term genocide isn't even used once in either of those articles you linked.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I'm not sure this is UKR related, but I'm not sure it isn't.

Bomb Hits Major Istanbul Avenue, Killing 6 and Wounding Dozens

Time|22 minutes ago
A bomb exploded on a popular pedestrian street in Istanbul on Sunday, killing six people, wounding dozens and sending people fleeing as flames rose. Footage posted online showed ambulances, fire trucks and police at the scene on on Istiklal Avenue,

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh I'm very aware how a lack of food causes people to go hungry, the problem is attacking an adversary's means of production and infrastructure is a valid military tactic, even if we loathe the conflict itself. If the actions of Russia prevented those other countries from procuring food from anywhere else, you might have point, but right now the definition of genocide covers intentional acts of murder, rape, torture, and the intentional destruction of all that is Ukrainian, language and culture included.

If say Gambia gets invaded by Russians who prevent any and all deliveries of food, I will be the first to agree with you. Creating a global food crisis is still horrible, don't get me wrong, but if there is anyone else referring to that specifically as genocide it's news to me. Could you indicate where in those articles your opinion is corroborated? The term genocide isn't even used once in either of those articles you linked.

Have the affected nations averted total disaster? Perhaps. Their suffering is still playing out. I am sure some (Egypt) are doing better than others.
But if you refuse the premise that starving millions is cause for us to act....then you can hang your hat on the word Genocide.
I simply want the Orcs returned to Mordor and for us to not shrink from that. My cause includes their blockade of the Black Sea.

If you simply do not want us attacking them in the defense of others, then come out and say that.
But let us not have you distract from what you originally said, as if a death cult chanting for nuclear first strike is in anyway comparable.

 

[kage69]

Have the affected nations averted total disaster? Perhaps. Their suffering is still playing out. I am sure some (Egypt) are doing better than others.
But if you refuse the premise that starving millions is cause for us to act....then you can hang your hat on the word Genocide.
I simply want the Orcs returned to Mordor and for us to not shrink from that. My cause includes their blockade of the Black Sea.

If you simply do not want us attacking them in the defense of others, then come out and say that.
But let us not have you distract from what you originally said, as if a death cult chanting for nuclear first strike is in anyway comparable.

So, no then? I didn't think so.

I can however empathize, thing is "words matter."

The rest is you trying to distract, then attribute it to me. What I originally said was you are displaying a curious double standard, and are now offering straw and more false attribution with your comments on millions starving as cause to act. "WW3 doesn't help us help the Ukrainians or address world hunger" I guess is how I can distill even more for you. We have cults over here too, I thought you knew.

Just for shits and giggles, and to answer your parting thought there: other than sporadic notes of sympathy for anti-war Russians, what posts of mine strike you as pro Yuri, in any way, shape or form? Where does the defense of Ukraine appear to be a political, ethical or moral problem for me?

Take your time. I've been posting here regularly for awhile, Search function will be your friend. FWIW my opinion is Ukraine is doing a damn fine job and doesn't need Americans (or anyone else) to tell them how bad it is or what their timetable should be. Ukrainian mettle and Western steel is getting the job done at a pace that keeps things from getting too serious. Disrupting that would be a mistake.

 

[Leeea]

march on Moscow and destroy the communist system in Russia while the West has the chance ?

It is a mafia system these days. No communism left.

attacking an adversary's means of production and infrastructure is a valid military tactic

only in total war

Meanwhile, just ordinary Russian citizens. Wishing for a murder suicide.

to be fair, I frequently get angry enough to suggest the same. There are only 143 million Russian's, the famine they are causing is expected to effect over 700 million people. Exterminate the Russian Federation for the greater good.

Russia is already waging Total War on Ukraine. The systematic extermination of as many civilians as Russia thinks it can get away with. Time to return the favor and end* the famine.

You've done the same thing in this thread, haven't you?

Browsing the news today, starting to feel that way. It might be a good thing I am not president for life. Then again, if I was president this war would already be done with and global warming would no longer be an issue.


The important thing to understand is this is not just some demonstration in Moscow. This is not a few people on the internet being evil. The extermination of civilian populations is Russia's official state policy. Genocide is Russia's goal. By action of what they do, and by public statement.



*Fantasy aside, getting rid of Russia would not actually end the famine. Russia is a primary source of fertilizer, and lack of fertilizer is also driving the famine as much or more as lack of food from Ukraine. Granted the lack of fertilizer is caused by Russia's war on Ukraine, but getting rid of Russia doesn't solve the problem. We might not need Russia, but the people who make the toys for our children this Christmas do.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Russia needs to be removed from the G20 and UN security council.

 

[kage69]

It is a mafia system these days. No communism left.


only in total war


to be fair, I frequently get angry enough to suggest the same. There are only 143 million Russian's, the famine they are causing is expected to effect over 700 million people. Exterminate the Russian Federation for the greater good.

Russia is already waging Total War on Ukraine. The systematic extermination of as many civilians as Russia thinks it can get away with. Time to return the favor and end* the famine.


Browsing the news today, starting to feel that way. It might be a good thing I am not president for life. Then again, if I was president this war would already be done with and global warming would no longer be an issue.


The important thing to understand is this is not just some demonstration in Moscow. This is not a few people on the internet being evil. The extermination of civilian populations is Russia's official state policy. Genocide is Russia's goal. By by action of what they do, and by public statement.



*Fantasy aside, getting rid of Russia would not actually end the famine. Russia is a primary source of fertilizer, and lack of fertilizer is also driving the famine as much or more as lack of food from Ukraine. Granted the lack of fertilizer is caused by Russia's war on Ukraine, but getting rid of Russia doesn't solve the problem. We might not need Russia, but the people who make the toys for our children this Christmas do.

No I get it, the Russians have been doing a great job at giving the world reasons to hate them. I'm certainly in that crowd, and I'm sure I've also at times been in the crowd reacting out of shock and anger. It's hard not to go there when you see the price Ukrainians have paid for wanting to exist, particularly the murder, rape and torture of civilians. How anyone can shrug at the state sponsored killing and kidnapping of young children is just unfathomable to me.

I consider the food issue to be just one more thing the international community will have to adapt to and cooperate for. The US and Canada can help in this regard I should think.

The coming break up of the Russian Federation is something I've posted about since they retreated from Kyiv, at least. Can't wait, have chair.

They can say whatever they want about their aim for Ukrainians, you'd need an army for that. File it with the Russian plans for their Checkmate stealth fighter, or automagically producing several thousand hyper-sonic missiles while under nut-crushing tech sanctions. What's the Russian equivalent of answering a stupid statement with a jack off motion?

 

[kage69]

Russia needs to be removed from the G20 and UN security council.

Absolutely. One of those seems like it would be easier to do than the other though. US and EU solidarity in G20 could count for something. One more thing Hungary can be kicked out of too right? Ha.

A new UN security council means a new UN, let's be honest here. China and Russia both would take issue with their power being diluted or removed. Would need a hell of a lot of agreements, short of Russia using nukes I don't see China signing on either. It's more likely China will continue to protect Russia diplomatically like they always do, resist any effort by the international community to address the terrorist state on the UNSC constantly undermining the UN charter.