Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,484
7,082
136
Members of Congress are demanding that the US sell Ukraine MQ-1Cs again. The time for this was months ago when the Russians didn't have their air defense house somewhat in order. Now they are just very expensive targets.

What Ukraine needs now is more vehicles/armor, artillery, loitering munitions, air defense, and stuff that can reach out and touch the Russians at ranges of at least 150km with great accuracy.

Isn't the Bayruktar (spelling?) better than the MQ1C for this purpose?
 
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DaaQ

Golden Member
Dec 8, 2018
1,365
972
136
None of us will know for sure I guess. Fact is they are made all over the world and of different materials and thicknesses. My neighbors use the kind rommel was talking about, decent mild steel from India or China, about 10mm thick from what I saw. They last awhile, take all kinds of abuse I'm told. Boron and few other elements can do some interesting things to steel, but by and large low carbon mild is so soft it doesn't even rate on the Rockwell at all. You have to use a different scale, the name of which eludes me at the moment. Actually, being that soft rules out heat treatment I realize, hrmmm. Forget what I said about 5.45x39. Wouldn't even need to be an AP round.

Thin harrows wouldn't do anything. Thick ones wouldn't do much. I hope the guys using it never have to find out how effective their improv is.
I think you are thinking of Improved Plow Steel. IIRC there may be an IPS+ also.
 
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ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
485
53
91
Interesting points about what led to the invasion here:



 
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Tsinni Dave

Senior member
Mar 1, 2022
559
1,378
106
Interesting points about what led to the invasion here:



I'm not sold on the idea that after the way Russia has gone about this war with the war crimes and deliberately targeting civilians that many Ukrainians, even those that formerly leaned toward Russia, would say that they would willingly accept becoming a Russian puppet state. I'm also not sold on the idea that any country that has actively persued democracy ( Ukraine shortly after the fall of the USSR ) should be sacrificed to appease Russia's insecurity.
Brzezinski was heinous, but Russia was already leaning away from the west and well into rebuilding itself on the mafia / kgb model imo, as the black market, corruption, and the internal intelligence apparatus were some of the strongest systems standing after the fall of the USSR. I also disagree that Russia had no intention of taking the entirety of Ukraine. There was an attempt after all to take the capital, but that was badly executed thankfully, that stupid 70km convoy was a shitshow of logistics, and the multiple assasination attempts on Zelensky that have failed indicate that Russia was not going to stop at Donbas.
The U.S. may have been playing games at some level, but Ukraine chose it's own road, and Russia chose to try to thwart them decades after giving up any reasonable claim over Ukraine. If Russia wants to beat its future to death out of irrational fear and nationalistic bluster, that is their own decision. The rationale of "poor Russia being bullied into a war" seems a little flimsy when their missiles are hitting civilian areas and infrastructure as winter begins and their media and military are threatening to use fucking nukes every second day. These are not the actions of a nation that has lofty intentions of helping the "oppressed" people of Ukraine.
And Trump thought Putin was a "genius" for doing this. Fuck Putin. Fuck Trump. Fuck the whole schwack of Putin fluffing wanna be authoritarian scumbag traitors to humanity. War is horrors piled upon horrors, but there is an old saying that goes something like "It's better to live one minute as a tiger than a lifetime as a worm." Perhaps it should be added that resistance to relegating your children and those you love to a life of being worms is also more reason to be the tiger if necessary.
 

whyitso

Member
Aug 25, 2022
104
81
61
Hello again.

Sounds familiar. Echos to today about the Russians.

The OUN-B had an ideology involving the following ideas: integral nationalism, with a pure national state and language being desired goals;[49] glorification of violence and armed struggle of nation versus nation;[50] and totalitarianism in which the nation must be ruled by one person and one political party.

There are about 180 nationalities with own languages in Russia. More then 30 languages has official status at national autonomy region. There is no stress point on one party, but, sure only one party have real power.
Russian nationalists have always complained that national minorities have more rights in the country than Slavs. That the only ideology in the country is money. And any organized minority could bribe the authorities and get more rights.
All in all, everything is very far from Nazism.

In Ukraine, on the other hand, the process of Ukrainianization has been underway for quite a long time. The Russian language, which is native and used in everyday life by more than 80% of the population, has been consistently restricted and oppressed. This has been one of the reasons for separatist sentiments in a number of regions.
At the moment there is only one party in Ukraine, the opposition is banned. One leader, who is constantly afraid of the popularity of the commander-in-chief.

It was not pleasant for me reading through this Wiki history of ethnic cleansing between Poles and Ukrainians during and just after WWII. It does give one some background about why the Russians can falsely claim the current Ukrainian government is full of Nazis, though

In today's world, it's hard to find a good ideology that will motivate people to fight and die for it. A simple definition of "Ukrainian is not Russian" was not enough. Human rights, transgender rights, and other "European values" were also not attractive enough for this purpose. Far-right subcultures, on the other hand, do attract young people. Especially since all of the national heroes of Ukraine's short period of independence collaborated with the Nazis during World War II. Therefore, Nazi and pagan battalions were created and were allowed to develop and prepare for a future war (since 2014, the Ukrainian government has repeated that they are ALREADY at war with Russia). Many Russian Hilter fans went to serve in Ukraine when they encountered problems with the law in Russia.
I think the Ukrainian government regards this as cosplay and does not see it as a big problem. But cosplay easily becomes reality when it is not controlled. And friends of Ukraine are unlikely to to notice and condemn the torture and execution of "separatists" and "collaborators" performed by SS cosplayers. And the bodies of the victims can always be presented as victims of the Rascists
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,027
14,632
146
Hello again.



There are about 180 nationalities with own languages in Russia. More then 30 languages has official status at national autonomy region. There is no stress point on one party, but, sure only one party have real power.
Russian nationalists have always complained that national minorities have more rights in the country than Slavs. That the only ideology in the country is money. And any organized minority could bribe the authorities and get more rights.
All in all, everything is very far from Nazism.

In Ukraine, on the other hand, the process of Ukrainianization has been underway for quite a long time. The Russian language, which is native and used in everyday life by more than 80% of the population, has been consistently restricted and oppressed. This has been one of the reasons for separatist sentiments in a number of regions.
At the moment there is only one party in Ukraine, the opposition is banned. One leader, who is constantly afraid of the popularity of the commander-in-chief.



In today's world, it's hard to find a good ideology that will motivate people to fight and die for it. A simple definition of "Ukrainian is not Russian" was not enough. Human rights, transgender rights, and other "European values" were also not attractive enough for this purpose. Far-right subcultures, on the other hand, do attract young people. Especially since all of the national heroes of Ukraine's short period of independence collaborated with the Nazis during World War II. Therefore, Nazi and pagan battalions were created and were allowed to develop and prepare for a future war (since 2014, the Ukrainian government has repeated that they are ALREADY at war with Russia). Many Russian Hilter fans went to serve in Ukraine when they encountered problems with the law in Russia.
I think the Ukrainian government regards this as cosplay and does not see it as a big problem. But cosplay easily becomes reality when it is not controlled. And friends of Ukraine are unlikely to to notice and condemn the torture and execution of "separatists" and "collaborators" performed by SS cosplayers. And the bodies of the victims can always be presented as victims of the Rascists

Here we go again with the brain dead claim that Ukraine is controlled and motivated by Nazis. Ukraine, a country that overwhelmingly voted in an openly JEWISH president with 74% of the vote.

This Nazi shit is Russian projection. Their own fucking mercenary group is named after Hitler's favorite composer.

Just stop. You can't seem to do more than regurgitate cheap Russian propaganda that only idiots would believe,
 

whyitso

Member
Aug 25, 2022
104
81
61
Just stop. You can't seem to do more than regurgitate cheap Russian propaganda that only idiots would believe,
reread my post. Nowhere does it say that it is about state ideology. It is about the fact that the Ukrainian government considers it possible to give freedom to ultra-right-wing nationalists to a certain extent, because they are useful for their purposes.
Don't attribute to me what I didn't say.
 
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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,027
14,632
146
reread my post. Nowhere does it say that it is about state ideology. It is about the fact that the Ukrainian government considers it possible to give freedom to ultra-right-wing nationalists to a certain extent, because they are useful for their purposes.
Don't attribute to me what I didn't say.

You fucking claimed that Nazi ideology is the only valid motivation for Ukraine to be defending itself against an illegal invasion.

Not national unity and identity.

Not rejection of fascist, totalitarian rule.

Not freedom.

Nope, you claimed it was Nazi ideology was their motivation.

I read your post.

You're a useful idiot.
 

whyitso

Member
Aug 25, 2022
104
81
61
There were no nationalist battalions? There were no symbols of the SS and other divisions of the Third Reich among Ukrainian servicemen? There were no torch marches in Ukraine dedicated to the memory of Hitler's collaborators?

Your anger doesn't make you any more right, with your "holy rage" you are trying to hide an inconvenient truth, which is a very popular technique among Ukrainians.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,582
146
Hello again.



There are about 180 nationalities with own languages in Russia. More then 30 languages has official status at national autonomy region. There is no stress point on one party, but, sure only one party have real power.
Russian nationalists have always complained that national minorities have more rights in the country than Slavs. That the only ideology in the country is money. And any organized minority could bribe the authorities and get more rights.
All in all, everything is very far from Nazism.

In Ukraine, on the other hand, the process of Ukrainianization has been underway for quite a long time. The Russian language, which is native and used in everyday life by more than 80% of the population, has been consistently restricted and oppressed. This has been one of the reasons for separatist sentiments in a number of regions.
At the moment there is only one party in Ukraine, the opposition is banned. One leader, who is constantly afraid of the popularity of the commander-in-chief.



In today's world, it's hard to find a good ideology that will motivate people to fight and die for it. A simple definition of "Ukrainian is not Russian" was not enough. Human rights, transgender rights, and other "European values" were also not attractive enough for this purpose. Far-right subcultures, on the other hand, do attract young people. Especially since all of the national heroes of Ukraine's short period of independence collaborated with the Nazis during World War II. Therefore, Nazi and pagan battalions were created and were allowed to develop and prepare for a future war (since 2014, the Ukrainian government has repeated that they are ALREADY at war with Russia). Many Russian Hilter fans went to serve in Ukraine when they encountered problems with the law in Russia.
I think the Ukrainian government regards this as cosplay and does not see it as a big problem. But cosplay easily becomes reality when it is not controlled. And friends of Ukraine are unlikely to to notice and condemn the torture and execution of "separatists" and "collaborators" performed by SS cosplayers. And the bodies of the victims can always be presented as victims of the Rascists

why haven't you been conscripted? Did you flee the motherland instead, so that you can shitpost from Belarus?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,582
146
There were no nationalist battalions? There were no symbols of the SS and other divisions of the Third Reich among Ukrainian servicemen? There were no torch marches in Ukraine dedicated to the memory of Hitler's collaborators?

Your anger doesn't make you any more right, with your "holy rage" you are trying to hide an inconvenient truth, which is a very popular technique among Ukrainians.

Putin's main enforcement brigade is an openly proud mercenary group of rabid Nazis. They aren't shy about it. They are actual Nazis.

Kindly shut the fuck up, grab your Stoli, and hop on the next van heading towards Crimea and do your duty.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,124
2,019
136

No paywall: https://archive.ph/incKQ
Ukrainian pilots have received six weeks of training on the submarine-hunting helicopters, which were retired by the Royal Navy in 2018. In total, the Royal Navy has trained 10 Ukrainian crews to use them along with associated engineers.

I hope they‘ve also started training Ukr pilots to operate western jets months ago.

But maybe not:

The US has previously sent 20 Mi-17 helicopters to Ukraine, but Western countries have rejected requests for fighter jets, fearing that they could be used by Kyiv to attack targets in Russia and trigger an escalation.

Why not give them jets armed with only air to air missiles then? They’re desperately needed and would be purely defensive.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,565
13,123
136
There were no nationalist battalions? There were no symbols of the SS and other divisions of the Third Reich among Ukrainian servicemen? There were no torch marches in Ukraine dedicated to the memory of Hitler's collaborators?

Your anger doesn't make you any more right, with your "holy rage" you are trying to hide an inconvenient truth, which is a very popular technique among Ukrainians.

Russia is one giant nationalist shitbed, its got way more in common with nazi germany than any other state on the planet. Yes, including China.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,675
12,804
146
Don't attribute to me what I didn't say.
Don't I have a memory of you saying you got your marching orders a few weeks back? How'd you duck that?

EDIT yeah, here it is:
Not yet. Now they only take people with military service experience. But I will be in the next wave of mobilization, as I was trained in the military department at the institute. There is time to get a job at a military enterprise. My knowledge and skills will be more useful there than at the front.
 
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Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,287
9,375
146
Interesting points about what led to the invasion here:



These arguments feel exactly like blaming a rape victim for what she was wearing.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,115
38,693
136
Damnit, did I Beetlejuice him back here with that last post?

Whyitso, still not feeding sunflowers eh? You don't appear to have any redeeming internet skills, so should we presume you can't afford any of the needed gear your shithole country won't provide?

If I were you I'd hope your handlers don't view this thread. The fail and ridicule you produce here will likely seem a lot less valuable than a hole you could be digging somewhere. Sure it's cold out there, but cheer up - just think of all the demoralized, heavily drunk armed convicts you could be hanging with. Is there an address AT can send you a care package to? You probably need to stock up on tampons, maybe some parts for a still? What can we send that will take your mind off washing machines and genocide?

We're here for you man.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,115
38,693
136
Here we go again with the brain dead claim that Ukraine is controlled and motivated by Nazis. Ukraine, a country that overwhelmingly voted in an openly JEWISH president with 74% of the vote.

This Nazi shit is Russian projection. Their own fucking mercenary group is named after Hitler's favorite composer.

Just stop. You can't seem to do more than regurgitate cheap Russian propaganda that only idiots would believe,

Least this one has a better command of English, really helps clarify the stupid. Still regurgitating the classics though it seems. Our poor language! Nazis!

 
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