Russia threatens U.S. over possible sanctions

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
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2,329
126
It will send a msg how toothy they are imo. If they lack teeth expect more expansion into Ukraine imo. I think we need to nip this in the ass right now before he rolls right up to Poland.

I would wager quite a bit that Putin/Russia is only interested in Crimea. The warm water port would be a huge addition to Russia and from what I understand Crimea would be rather easy to absorb due to most of the residents being very pro-russia.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Putin sees the USA reducing our military and it just sends a message that we are all chickens and will do nothing. Meanwhile everywhere in Europe, Russian Oil is on sale. If I was a terrorist, I would attack their oil industry. That would cripple both the EU and the Russians but that is their problem.

Reducing our military? Exactly how much more do we spend on our military than Russia does?

Besides, regardless of what "reductions" you think have been made, we wouldn't get into a shooting war with Russia over a portion of Ukraine.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
1,741
126
We just sent over a billion dollars in Aide. A billion!

What about the people who desperately needed unemployment extension in December? We couldn't extend unemployment benefits, but yet we can send Ukraine a billion dollars?

This is why Americans are irate with government.
Finally, I doubt most Americans could give a sh*t about Russia and Ukraine.
 

BUnit1701

Senior member
May 1, 2013
853
1
0
I can't possibly fathom what you're basing this on. It seems like wishful thinking combined with partisanship. If you look at Obama's foreign policy record he has been quite successful, with the notable exception of Syria. Putin's actions here are likely screwing Russia long term, I feel it is likely that he is just in a bad spot where he feels like he can't do anything else.

...

Do elaborate on these successful foreign policy achievements, because to any unbiased observer this administration doesn't seem to HAVE a foreign policy.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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So much misinformation coming from ALL sides.

Like it or not, yanukovych was not properly impeached. They were short ~10% of the votes from parliament. And much of the people revolting are not doing it in any sort of peaceful manner.

So, the still active president went to putin asking for defense help before he bailed... And putin sends help, to a country funded by him, defended by him, and populated by "his" people. I can see why he's wanting to protect his interests.



I'm not saying russia doesn't have major major problems... And don't get me started on putin being off his rocker... But honestly I do think crimea should probably be part of russia, all things considered.


Most of all.... I love how when we pull this dumb shit it's all good cuz it's "for the people" but someone else does it and obama flaps his lips about how terrible and shameful it is. Our Dear Leader's behaviour is about as bad as putin's.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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It's some guy in the government running his big mouth, Russia already said he is speaking for himself and not the Russian government. There is a lot of inflammatory rhetoric and loose words that make the news. Reality is always far less dramatic than Cold War rhetoric the media covers.
 
Sep 7, 2009
12,960
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It's some guy in the government running his big mouth, Russia already said he is speaking for himself and not the Russian government. There is a lot of inflammatory rhetoric and loose words that make the news. Reality is always far less dramatic than Cold War rhetoric the media covers.


Yet our Dear Leader's media spews tons of garbage insinuating the impeachment was legal. I read the Ukraine constitution last night and it's pretty clear as to what has to happen, and their president was not impeached. Not even close, really. Yet all of the liberal outlets have huge headlines direct from our Dear Leader's mouth claiming it was all legal....


So now, since legally yanukovych is still president, Ukraine is at a point where it's going through a "forceful takeover" by the people....... So what would you expect russia to do with one of their top foreign interests??

And even then, he specifically sends troops with NO insignia, shit half of them don't even have bullets!



If roles were reversed, and a US friendly country had this going on, we would have drones over there killing innocents right and left, soldiers kicking down doors, and bringing our military up 100%, all while showing propoganda on CNN about WMDs and gearing up for another stupid pointless war.

I think russia's reaction is actually fairly reasonable. It's not like putin is putting in a new president or some crap, all his people are doing is guarding russia-financed military installations.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
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Yet our Dear Leader's media spews tons of garbage insinuating the impeachment was legal. I read the Ukraine constitution last night and it's pretty clear as to what has to happen, and their president was not impeached. Not even close, really. Yet all of the liberal outlets have huge headlines direct from our Dear Leader's mouth claiming it was all legal....


So now, since legally yanukovych is still president, Ukraine is at a point where it's going through a "forceful takeover" by the people....... So what would you expect russia to do with one of their top foreign interests??

And even then, he specifically sends troops with NO insignia, shit half of them don't even have bullets!



If roles were reversed, and a US friendly country had this going on, we would have drones over there killing innocents right and left, soldiers kicking down doors, and bringing our military up 100%, all while showing propoganda on CNN about WMDs and gearing up for another stupid pointless war.

I think russia's reaction is actually fairly reasonable. It's not like putin is putting in a new president or some crap, all his people are doing is guarding russia-financed military installations.

Any links to where you get some of these ideas?

Seriously, I'd like to understand where you're coming from.

Where in Russia are you currently stationed?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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Ukraine and Russia will negotiate a mutually acceptable solution, most likely preservation of status quo on Russian fleet and keeping NATO out of the Crimea, in exchange for Russia taking Crimean independence off the table.
 
Sep 7, 2009
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Ukraine and Russia will negotiate a mutually acceptable solution, most likely preservation of status quo on Russian fleet and keeping NATO out of the Crimea, in exchange for Russia taking Crimean independence off the table.



That is a best case scenario, and what should happen.

Crimea is mostly russian anyway, along with most of eastern ukraine.

Not everyone wants this revolution.. And the people fronting the revolution aren't all "good guys" either. It's certainly a lesser of two evils situation.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Crimea can benefit from BOTH Russian fleet's presence as leverage with Kiev, and from Ukraine's closer ties with the west, especially financial aid and increased tourism. It's going to be like a spoiled child with two divorced parents each outdoing each other to win their favor. They are doing a good job playing their cards for maximum leverage.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,498
136
Any links to where you get some of these ideas?

Seriously, I'd like to understand where you're coming from.

Where in Russia are you currently stationed?

It isn't about that, it's about showing the rest of his political tribe that he's against Obama. Doesn't matter if he's cheering on thugs who run other countries against the interests of his own so long as his domestic political enemies are wrong and bad.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
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It isn't about that, it's about showing the rest of his political tribe that he's against Obama. Doesn't matter if he's cheering on thugs who run other countries against the interests of his own so long as his domestic political enemies are wrong and bad.



So more of a Sarah Palin than a Nikita Khrushchev?

I thought he had to be a Pro-Putin Russian poster.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
So I assume you're conceding that Europe has been vocal in their support of Obama now? Not sure how you missed all that.

The ball won't be in Putin's court, the US and Europe will start sanctioning Russia. I'm interested to see how toothy those sanctions are. That will say a lot.

I agree with your last 2 sentences. But we're hearing different news.

There is no indication that Germany and the UK are involved in any support of Obama, unless one wishes to generously interpret broad statements against Russian occupation are really just statements in support of Obama.

Word is that the UK isn't going allowing any freezing of Russian assets/bank accounts: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/04/clegg-distance-secret-paper-russia-sanctions-ukraine

I'm hearing the corrupt Russian oligarchs have their money in England (London), Germany and Austria and those countries have no intention of hurting their banking industries with any sanctions. It's too bad if true because the freezing of those assets and cancellation of travel visas would be damaging to Putin

And I believe it fact that Merkel is not endorsing economic sanctions, rather she is pursuing 'talks' with Putin.

UK: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/04/clegg-distance-secret-paper-russia-sanctions-ukraine

Merkel: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-us-europe-putin-crimea

There's clearly a rift at this time between Europe and Obama. And I think it's looking more and more like it's Merkel who is in charge and not Obama.

I would recommend people watch ALJAZ news coverage of this as it seems much better than what we're getting on other news networks.

Fern
 
Sep 7, 2009
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Apparently one of the biggest issues with this revolution is the right to bear arms... Claims that these fights happened with molotov cocktails and homemade devices, and it's not right for the people to have such a disparity of power against their government.

Interesting how so much of this concept rings home here in the US.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,974
8,693
136
Crimea can benefit from BOTH Russian fleet's presence as leverage with Kiev, and from Ukraine's closer ties with the west, especially financial aid and increased tourism. It's going to be like a spoiled child with two divorced parents each outdoing each other to win their favor. They are doing a good job playing their cards for maximum leverage.

Crimea isn't going to get a say in this.
They are either going to do what Kiev says or what Moscow says. At the moment they are going to have to do what Moscow says, and I'm guessing that it's going to stay that way.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Apparently one of the biggest issues with this revolution is the right to bear arms... Claims that these fights happened with molotov cocktails and homemade devices, and it's not right for the people to have such a disparity of power against their government.

Interesting how so much of this concept rings home here in the US.




Say what?

The people with the molotov cocktails defeated the people with the guns.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Crimea isn't going to get a say in this.
They are either going to do what Kiev says or what Moscow says. At the moment they are going to have to do what Moscow says, and I'm guessing that it's going to stay that way.

If that was the case, Russia wouldn't be putting in the effort to propagandize and shape public opinion in Crimea, and offering them aid. Crimeans are going to decide this.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
It isn't about that, it's about showing the rest of his political tribe that he's against Obama. Doesn't matter if he's cheering on thugs who run other countries against the interests of his own so long as his domestic political enemies are wrong and bad.

This may be true, but from the other side I am sure Obama is a thug as well as the rest of our politicians. We are their enemy as much as they are ours. We invade countries pretending it is for their best interest, Russia doesn't pretend though. I think that may be the only difference- Russia doesn't play pretend.

All this stuff has nothing to do with republican or democrat or whatever- it would be the same with an R as president. This is just world powers stomping around. I am not convinced there are any good guys.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
If that was the case, Russia wouldn't be putting in the effort to propagandize and shape public opinion in Crimea, and offering them aid. Crimeans are going to decide this.

Shaping public opinion by stationing an army there? Crimeans are going to decide whatever Moscow instructs them. You have to ignore decades of history to believe otherwise.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
294
126
www.bradlygsmith.org
What do the GOP senators (and the Fox News crowd) want us to do? Go to war with Russia? Send Ukraine arms? We're giving them 1B, and have spoken our support for Kiev sternly. Should we really go farther?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Shaping public opinion by stationing an army there? Crimeans are going to decide whatever Moscow instructs them. You have to ignore decades of history to believe otherwise.

There was a strong separatist movement there long before this happened. You have to ignore decades of history to believe otherwise. Moscow wouldn't be there if there wasn't.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,974
8,693
136
If that was the case, Russia wouldn't be putting in the effort to propagandize and shape public opinion in Crimea, and offering them aid. Crimeans are going to decide this.

You really believe that there's the slightest chance of Russia leaving and giving up access to the Crimea if asked?
 
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