Russiagate Is Making Everyone Stupid

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
There are plenty of good journalists on RT. I won't defend the network in general, because I never watch it, and don't really care. However, there are several good progressives on RT, because the propaganda networks in the usa aren't interested in true left to center left politics. Thom Hartman is a great example.

PS: The usa is an oligarchy, and our "news" is propaganda and bs. So...

You still don't understand.

Everything RT writes is tainted by its connection to the Russian government. No exceptions. It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum a given journalist is on; it doesn't matter how honest a given journalist seems. Putin holds all the cards and can dictate what RT is allowed to say, or even whether or not RT exists.

Remember, Russia's 2016 manipulation campaign involved stoking tensions on both sides. In other words, it wanted to polarize people so that it got a Russia-friendly US President. That doesn't just mean boosting Trump; it also means convincing the left to abstain from voting for Clinton. What better way to get Trump elected than to insist Clinton isn't progressive enough, even though any intelligent pragmatist could tell you she was clearly a better choice than Trump?

That's the sad part. You always posture on this forum as an 'enlightened' counterculture rebel who knows what everyone else doesn't (hint: you don't), but you haven't even stopped to consider the possibility that RT is playing you like a fiddle.

Also: don't give me your attempts at equivocation. Oligarchy is bad, but you know what's worse? Supporting a media outlet that props up a dictator. If you genuinely believe in the importance of journalistic integrity, don't give RT any credibility; read or watch more neutral parties like the BBC.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
Do you need help with the google?

A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes an unwarranted conspiracy, generally one involving an illegal or harmful act carried out by government or other powerful actors.

fuck russians. You suck.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,775
1,496
126
I could argue that the GOP has been complicit in pushing the Russians toward their posture and strategy.

The elder Bush administration might have been less aggressive for NATO gobbling up all the "little-bear" post-Soviet states. Essentially, given the history of Russian authoritarianism, the over-expansion of NATO was equivalent to kicking your defeated enemy while he was down. "He was down," because the deconstruction of the USSR during the 1990s looked toward moving Russia from a hilltop of the minimal prosperity or stability under one system, to the mountain of greater prosperity thereafter under a reformed system. The valley of these sorts of changes is a valley of pain. The opportunity was lost, even as Obama and Medvedev were having Big Macs in the fast food restaurant before Medvedev was replaced by Putin. Was Medvedev a Putin puppet? I cannot be sure. His engagement with the Obama White House seemed cordial.

It was irresponsible of the GOP legislators to pursue their litigious investigation and impeachment of Clinton. True -- times have changed, but having your knob polished in the Oral Office was once something gentlemen agreed not to touch as means of stirring up scandal. We could blame Clinton for being weak; but the pronouncement of the Special Counsel -- I believe it was Ken Starr at end of Clinton's second term -- made it clear that there was no substantive wrongdoing in Travelgate, Whitewater, or the vestiges of Monica-gate. Clinton's impeachment did not result in his expulsion. They tried to make a blow-job a high crime or misdemeanor, and they tried to make Clinton's equivocations and legal sleight of hand sufficient to charge him with a crime, but they couldn't.

It was much ado about nothing but a blow-job. The Clintons finished out their term to Dubya's inauguration. But all of that trouble likely made it impossible for Clinton to focus on opportunities for rapprochement with Russia during Yeltsin's term.

But the blow-job would live on. Jerry Falwell got up on TV to tell the public and their kids who might be watching, that Clinton's "crimes" caused an epidemic of oral sex among American teenagers. When I was a teenager in the 1960s, I already was aspiring to getting my first blow job. But the teens picked up on this. At some point, in my local county, a parent tried to sue the school district for putting the Merriam-Webster's Dictionary (based on the public library's Third New International Webster's Dictionary) in classrooms: a student looked up the expression "oral sex," and found the definition. The parent, no doubt, thought that such an expression would never be in the Merriam Webster's, because it had two words.

So Jerry Falwell was responsible for teenager curiosity about oral sex. And the GOP has brought us to the circumstance with a Liar, a Cheat, a Philanderer, and -- likely -- a Traitor -- in the White House.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,001
10,167
136
Coming back to the OP, I'm a bit confused. Maybe @unseenmorbidity can explain it to me?

The quote asserts that the "White Helmets" are part of a destablisation effort in Syria. This would be an organisation that was created after the civil war started, a civil war that started when the Assad government's forces opened fire on a pro-democracy rally and subsequently tried to claim down on nationwide protests with force? This would be the government that has relentlessly bombed civilian targets, abandoned ceasefires, used chemical weapons against the populace, stopped aid convoys helping civilians, reduced many cities to smoldering ruins, caused millions of civilians to flee, and a general situation that even if the civil war ended right now in the most civil and generally agreeable way Syria would take many decades to recover, and you're talking about some random organisation that isn't the government as being part of a "destabilisation effort"?

You don't think that a government engaging in all of those military actions against its own people is a destabilising move? What exactly can an organisation that didn't exist at the start of a civil war be doing during a civil war to destabilise a civil war?
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,252
28,107
136
Russiagate has made Trump stupid. Tillerson calls out Russia for the poisoning and gets fired by President Corrupt
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,989
14,488
146
The right wing has been spending a decade telling everyone the MSM is government controlled. The second Trump gets into office, now it's the "Derp State."

Meanwhile, RT is, in point of absolute fact, a government owned and controlled media source.

So what does the right do? They distrust the real independent, free media and instead follow the actual government own media.

You can't make this level of stupidity up.

This is why I call the right-wing a cult now. They literally have you collectively believing the opposite of reality on virtually every subject. Science, medicine, world affairs, basic ordinary facts, etc. In all of these you have a collective on the right who believe the exact opposite of easily established fact.
 
Reactions: greatnoob

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,915
8,656
136
It is a conspiracy theory. Your red herring rambling won't ever change that.

You know what does change it though? The fact that it isn't based on random Internet ramblings and innuendo. It will be proven or unproven based on evidence gathered and examined by intelligence and law agencies not random anonymous blogs or forum posters.



Accusing Someone You Disagree With Of Being A Russian Troll Is Admitting You Have No Argument

You haven't brought an argument for anyone to argue with yet. You've brought options, innuendo and speculation.
 

unseenmorbidity

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2016
1,395
967
96
fuck russians. You suck.
What's with the bigotry to Russians? Do you call yourself a liberal/progressive? It's rather disgusting, don't you think?

Why is this kind of vitriol even allowed on the forum?

well, that's all the more damning then, isn't it?

It is for HRC. It shows that she lost to a gameshow host that wasn't even trying to win.

You still don't understand.

Everything RT writes is tainted by its connection to the Russian government. No exceptions. It doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum a given journalist is on; it doesn't matter how honest a given journalist seems. Putin holds all the cards and can dictate what RT is allowed to say, or even whether or not RT exists.

Remember, Russia's 2016 manipulation campaign involved stoking tensions on both sides. In other words, it wanted to polarize people so that it got a Russia-friendly US President. That doesn't just mean boosting Trump; it also means convincing the left to abstain from voting for Clinton. What better way to get Trump elected than to insist Clinton isn't progressive enough, even though any intelligent pragmatist could tell you she was clearly a better choice than Trump?

That's the sad part. You always posture on this forum as an 'enlightened' counterculture rebel who knows what everyone else doesn't (hint: you don't), but you haven't even stopped to consider the possibility that RT is playing you like a fiddle.

Also: don't give me your attempts at equivocation. Oligarchy is bad, but you know what's worse? Supporting a media outlet that props up a dictator. If you genuinely believe in the importance of journalistic integrity, don't give RT any credibility; read or watch more neutral parties like the BBC.

Thom Hartman is a russian stooge? You cannot be serious...

No, that's what was asserted without evidence, a long with a lot of other stuff that was debunked.

I don't even watch RT old timer...

And our media outlets prop up our oligarchy... You have no high ground to stand on. I know you think you do, cuz MURCIA, but you don't.
 
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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,120
1,590
126
He talked about illegal aliens, but it seemed like you were insinuating that Trump was saying it was fixed in his favor.
He was recorded a number of times baselessly accusing others of fixing the campaign. He was trying to play the victim card and whine about it being "against him." However, if you look at all the gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement via ID laws, reductions of voting hours, reductions of early voting, voter registration purges, and election day being a weekday without requiring employers to make allowances for workers to vote, it is obvious many states have are "fixed" to un-represent people of color, or people of lower income, or younger people. So, I will continue to say that the election was fixed in Trumps favor.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
What's with the bigotry to Russians?


Do you call yourself a liberal/progressive?


It's rather disgusting, don't you think?


Why is this kind of vitriol even allowed on the forum?


It is for HRC. It shows that she lost to a gameshow host that wasn't even trying to win.


Thom Hartman is a russian stooge? You cannot be serious...

не такая такая киска

Negative I am a meat popsicle

Nope

Read get information before write disinformation

But benghazi!

I can to be serious. Just not with one who isn't.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
What's with the bigotry to Russians? Do you call yourself a liberal/progressive? It's rather disgusting, don't you think?

Why is this kind of vitriol even allowed on the forum?



It is for HRC. It shows that she lost to a gameshow host that wasn't even trying to win.



Thom Hartman is a russian stooge? You cannot be serious...

No, that's what was asserted without evidence, a long with a lot of other stuff that was debunked.

I don't even watch RT old timer...

And our media outlets prop up our oligarchy... You have no high ground to stand on. I know you think you do, cuz MURCIA, but you don't.

russia is a shit tier country.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,252
28,107
136
What's with the bigotry to Russians? Do you call yourself a liberal/progressive? It's rather disgusting, don't you think?

Why is this kind of vitriol even allowed on the forum?

.
I and every other loyal American should be bigoted towards enemies of this country.

Unlike the racist bigotry show by the current POTUS towards countries just because they are predominately black.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
source?

Trump wasn't even trying to win the election... Heck, even south park did an episode on it. He knew he wasn't going to win, and even tried to throw the election.

You, just like the author of the article you shared, are displaying 100% the exact same behavior as they are claiming of others. Starting with this post here, you completely derail your entire argument. I, as an American, can honestly attest that our electorate is filled with generally good intentions but a decidedly uneducated majority -- they who are responsible for putting the man who clearly did not want to win into that office.

The people were already stupid long before Russiagate. Russiagate *should* have woke people up, but it did the exact opposite, it found the majority closing their eyes, covering their ears, and yelling "naananaannnana can't hear you, stupid!"
And that base, and the fools who got them worked up, largely view "the liberal college system" as an enemy of state. Yes, they view education as contrary to their beliefs. Probably because they should, because with education comes the learning that "wow I had no idea what I was talking about back then" and that danger to the religious right known as science is commonly lectured in those there schools. But that's a function of wanting to hold onto the past and comfort versus the unknown future of change.

Oh and for the author of that article: holy shit literally the only method of writing she used throughout that article is everything she claims to hate. No evidence, vague "experts" and especially relying upon a single favorite expert she so helpfully made plain to see, circular reasoning, and generally just writing a shit article that reads more like an angry blog. Maybe that's the joke, but if so, she achieved nothing.

I wouldn't trust their reporting on Russia, but the usa reporting is far better than the propaganda networks in the usa.

I mean, you can make that claim all day long, but until you cite any evidence for your claims that one is less biased than the other, you've done nothing except put a different spin on the same argument.
I'd also love to see what comprises your list of "propaganda networks," more so because I really want to see what you leave off that list. If you aren't paying attention to real purveyors of in-depth reporting and analysis and instead are focusing on the broadcast and cable news channels, I'd still warn you that where you see bias/tilt in a way as to support your argument, I'm quite sure a majority of the independent press correctly asserts that, in terms of true political bias, a majority of the "main stream media" are neutral, if perhaps ever-so-barely skewed toward the social left (personal freedoms) as opposed to the [bible-based] social right. Well, except for Fox News, which has always been decidedly conservative both politically and socially. Fair and Balanced my ass, only if you consider only the different views on the right and say it's fair and balanced between the various voices on the right but even that's a stretch.

In the interest of brevity (and I don't care to put anymore time to this post) I'm not showing my work until you show me yours.
 
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