Russian Soldiers steal credit cards of Polish crash victims

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,574
146
Strawman argument, and we are not talking about freedom of press here anyway.

You're trying to argue that things are "just as bad in the US."

You sound naive, b/c the US obviously doesn't murder journalists who criticize our government. We freely accept criticism. We don't have state-controlled radio or Television. Yes, there will always be pressure to strangle stories that threaten national security, but no one really has the power in the US to stop such leaks if they occur, and...well, there is NO MURDER.

Putin has pretty much ordered the hit on at least 4? Russian journalists over the previous 5 years. I think more...and you'll be hard-pressed to find an international media source that doesn't take the same stance on this issue.

It's as valid an argument and counterpoint to your naive understanding of Soviet social policy as one can make.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
1,789
0
71
www.conkurent.com
well, sentence one tells me you're smoking the pipe.

seriously, spend a mere week in a former occupied territory. rush over to St Petersburg for a day or two. Head down to Kiev if you must.

Again, I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about the survival of the "true believers" that really do think life was better in the CCCP, and yearn for such to return. Every country has its singular wackos.

I know people that work in these countries in federal anti-corruption departments, the type of offices that are established and are completely essential when states adopt an entirely new social and economic government. The type of stories that come out of these offices are mind boggling. Some sound simple--the acceptance that bribery is still necessary--"tipping" your doctor, for example--but really aren't. Tipping your doctor is actually illegal (it makes no sense for us in the US, or in Western Europe), but if you'd grown up under 60 years of occupation, that is simply how you live. To get bread, you bribe whoever you need to...This stuff was essential, and although unnecessary in these regions today, the idea that it is acceptable is still pervasive in the most rural areas.

Again, these two examples will probably sound very minor to the average westerner, but you have to understand the nature of corruption, how it's adoption and acceptance in all levels of society cripple an economy and devastate a social order. I think Russia is something like #7 in the UN list of most corrupt states? It's right behind Nigeria. LOLWTF.

and again, when our Government starts sanctioning the murder of journalists that it takes issue with, one might allow you to make such naively idiotic statements like: "if you think it's that much different over here."

I actually believe that one gains the type of understanding about Soviet communism and policy that you have from growing up educated as we have been--that the role of Stalin and Kruschev in the shaping of post-war 20th century isn't "that bad." That Stalin's atrocities are horribly, tragically brushed-over in our history books.

Frankly, the role that US has played in aquiescing to post-war Soviet policy, simply to "play nice" with a pseudo ally, and not anger our true enemy, was absolutely wrong. Millions suffered and died b/c it was deemed necessary to ignore the movements they were making on their continent, and through eastern Europe.

This isn't an anti-Russia thing, it's an anti-Soviet thing. It's calling to task our role in kowtowing to a known international thug (not that the Korean engagement should be considered kowtowing, mind you ), and the unwillingness of the current pro-Soviet hawks (Putin and his regime of true believers, and those simple and naive enough to accept him) to apologize for and accept their country's role in past Soviet atrocities.

Keep stroking your ego. For what it's worth, I've had a good taste of both worlds, I lived here long enough to undestand inner workings of the society.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
1,789
0
71
www.conkurent.com
How long did you live in Russia / under communism, and how old were you? Were you born there?

I was born and lived in the USSR/CIS between 1972-1995, since 1995 permanently moved to the US - UT, IL, MA, NH and travelled extensively. One can say I've been around
 
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