Russian submarine sailed in Gulf of Mexico undetected for weeks

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Just read about this:

http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

Silent Running
Russian attack submarine sailed in Gulf of Mexico undetected for weeks, U.S. officials say

BY: Bill Gertz
August 14, 2012 5:00 am

A Russian nuclear-powered attack submarine armed with long-range cruise missiles operated undetected in the Gulf of Mexico for several weeks and its travel in strategic U.S. waters was only confirmed after it left the region, the Washington Free Beacon has learned.

It is only the second time since 2009 that a Russian attack submarine has patrolled so close to U.S. shores.

The stealth underwater incursion in the Gulf took place at the same time Russian strategic bombers made incursions into restricted U.S. airspace near Alaska and California in June and July, and highlights a growing military assertiveness by Moscow.

The submarine patrol also exposed what U.S. officials said were deficiencies in U.S. anti-submarine warfare capabilities—forces that are facing cuts under the Obama administration’s plan to reduce defense spending by $487 billion over the next 10 years.

The Navy is in charge of detecting submarines, especially those that sail near U.S. nuclear missile submarines, and uses undersea sensors and satellites to locate and track them.

The fact that the Akula was not detected in the Gulf is cause for concern, U.S. officials said.

The officials who are familiar with reports of the submarine patrol in the Gulf of Mexico said the vessel was a nuclear-powered Akula-class attack submarine, one of Russia’s quietest submarines.

A Navy spokeswoman declined to comment.

One official said the Akula operated without being detected for a month.

“The Akula was built for one reason and one reason only: To kill U.S. Navy ballistic missile submarines and their crews,” said a second U.S. official.

“It’s a very stealthy boat so it can sneak around and avoid detection and hope to get past any protective screen a boomer might have in place,” the official said, referring to the Navy nickname for strategic missile submarines.

The U.S. Navy operates a strategic nuclear submarine base at Kings Bay, Georgia. The base is homeport to eight missile-firing submarines, six of them equipped with nuclear-tipped missiles, and two armed with conventional warhead missiles.

“Sending a nuclear-propelled submarine into the Gulf of Mexico-Caribbean region is another manifestation of President Putin demonstrating that Russia is still a player on the world’s political-military stage,” said naval analyst and submarine warfare specialist Norman Polmar.

“Like the recent deployment of a task force led by a nuclear cruiser into the Caribbean, the Russian Navy provides him with a means of ‘showing the flag’ that is not possible with Russian air and ground forces,” Polmar said in an email.

The last time an Akula submarine was known to be close to U.S. shores was 2009, when two Akulas were spotted patrolling off the east coast of the United States.

Those submarine patrols raised concerns at the time about a new Russian military assertiveness toward the United States, according to the New York Times, which first reported the 2009 Akula submarine activity.

The latest submarine incursion in the Gulf further highlights the failure of the Obama administration’s “reset” policy of conciliatory actions designed to develop closer ties with Moscow.

Instead of closer ties, Russia under President Vladimir Putin, an ex-KGB intelligence officer who has said he wants to restore elements of Russia’s Soviet communist past, has adopted growing hardline policies against the United States.

Of the submarine activity, Sen. John Cornyn (R., Texas), member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said, “It’s a confounding situation arising from a lack of leadership in our dealings with Moscow. While the president is touting our supposed ‘reset’ in relations with Russia, Vladimir Putin is actively working against American interests, whether it’s in Syria or here in our own backyard.”

Makes me noivous. I wonder what would've happened had they been intercepted. Seems like Russia is making deliberate attempts to antagonize us. Do we do this sort of stuff to them and just not hear about it?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
We probably would have just started to actively ping them on a continuous basis had we detected them (though not sure if they Russians are telling the truth of lying to make themselves appear more powerful). The active pings would drive them away.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
What we need is a new submarine detection system. Subs are becoming quieter and quieter, so a completely new system is needed.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Probably no one was looking for it. Costs a lot of money to fly sub patrols if you are not really expecting a submarine to be in your waters. Plus the CIA is probably not devoting many resources to tracking and intelligence gathering on Russian forces.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,591
7,652
136
Searching for Russian nuclear subs... does this fall under DHS?

Perhaps if they molest us a little harder at the airport next time, Russia will think twice.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Probably no one was looking for it. Costs a lot of money to fly sub patrols if you are not really expecting a submarine to be in your waters. Plus the CIA is probably not devoting many resources to tracking and intelligence gathering on Russian forces.

I would say this is a good answer.

One has to think is Putin wanting to start a new cold war to solidify his position of control and potential to do away with the term limits in Russia.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Probably no one was looking for it. Costs a lot of money to fly sub patrols if you are not really expecting a submarine to be in your waters. Plus the CIA is probably not devoting many resources to tracking and intelligence gathering on Russian forces.

There is absolutely no reason to not have a SOSUS line from Florida to the Yucatan.

If exists; there was a breakdown in the line or we became to complacent.
We can detect the Akula with another sub and as it comes through the GIUK gap.

Either way, it is a wakeup call that a condition exists that needs to be addressed and quickly.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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0
ASW patrols are for when you know a sub is in the area; not for casting a net.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I wonder if it bothers Putin that we are so unworried about an attack by Russia that we don't even bother to track their subs anymore.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
ASW patrols are for when you know a sub is in the area; not for casting a net.

They are very ineffective at catching a sub even when they know one is in the area, too.

We brought some ASW specialists onboard my sub for some anti sub exercises. I was manning the geo plot (yep, they secured the Aux Electrician for the plot, as usual) during that time. An officer was watching me to learn what we do so he could become more effective at hunting us.

When the first sonobouy splashed into the water and the sonar operator announced it, I put a mark on the geo plot showing its location and a circle showing its effective range of detection. The officer asked me why I did that, I told him "so we know where to avoid". "That is all you do, you just avoid it?" "Yep" He just shook his head and muttered about feeling completely useless.

 

diesbudt

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2012
3,393
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0
I wonder if it bothers Putin that we are so unworried about an attack by Russia that we don't even bother to track their subs anymore.

This. And for them to field any sort of threat that close to our country would be big enough to be detetcable. 1 Sub is incredibally hard, especially stealth, to find. But if they emassed 10+? They would be noticed going towards us (in other countries) or when they arrived by us.

3 possibilities on this.

1) Antagonizing us hopfully starting a scuffle
2) Wanted to see how good their new sub is at being undetected by a power such as us
3) Were some reason interested in checking out the oil disaster from some time back and see how it is being handled.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
81
J
Makes me noivous. I wonder what would've happened had they been intercepted. Seems like Russia is making deliberate attempts to antagonize us. Do we do this sort of stuff to them and just not hear about it?
Yes we probably do this kind of stuff. Remember when they shot down one of our U2s in 1960? This kind of thing happened all the time during the cold war. Both sides would taunt the other.

Instead of getting a bigger military, the answer is to have a better military. We need to develop technology that allows us to shoot them without them knowing it. A plane in our airspace could be shot down with lasers! A sub could have the hull breached using lasers (or some other technology).
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Seems like Russia is making deliberate attempts to antagonize us.

Kinda like the U.S. having missiles in Poland?

Turn about is fair play. If the U.S. can have missiles on the borders of Russia, why cant Russia do the same thing to us?
 

rayfieldclement

Senior member
Apr 12, 2012
514
0
0
Some times the US military scores a home run and sometimes FAIL! We better start concentrating on sub warefare like the germans in WW2 and the cold war USSR.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
By design, the missile shield in Poland was never intended to stop a Russian nuclear barrage.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
Who says we didn't detect them and we don't want them to know we did

Did you think of that!
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Who says we didn't detect them and we don't want them to know we did

Did you think of that!

Had we detected them within the Gulf; they would have been chased out.
Same as if we tried to slip a sub into Murmansk. Dangerous, attempted and potential for major trouble is detected.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
The gulf of mexico is a major weak spot in national defenses.

If I remember right, something like 20% of the nations fuel supply comes from refineries along the gulf of mexico. Or was that 20% just from the houston / beaumont region?

A single sub with a couple of dozen missiles could destroy a major part of our refining capability.

We have no missile defense shield anywhere along the gulf of mexico to protect us from attack.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Military getting wary about budget cuts = military starts leaking ginned up news to the press about suddenly not being able to detect 20-year-old submarines in coastal waters.

Nonsense. You're all getting played.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Military getting wary about budget cuts = military starts leaking ginned up news to the press about suddenly not being able to detect 20-year-old submarines in coastal waters.

Nonsense. You're all getting played.

With as much ship traffic that goes in and out of the gulf, I would not be surprised if russia had a whole fleet sitting out there.
 
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