Russian woman charged with spying for Moscow by 'infiltrating' NRA

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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,912
2,130
126
"The Russophobic witch hunt has its first real life victim in 29 year old Maria Butina, whose life is to be destroyed for chatting up members of the NRA in order to increase Russian influence. With over 20 years of diplomatic experience, I can tell you that every country, including the UK and US, has bit part players of its own nationals who self-start in a country to make their way, and if they gain any traction are tapped by their national security service as potential “agents of influence”. I could name quite literally scores of such people, but have no desire to get anyone in trouble. The elevation of Butina into a huge threat and part of a gigantic plot, is to ignore the way the United States and the United Kingdom and indeed all major governments’ Embassies behave around the globe."

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/detente-bad-cold-war-good/
Is this the "so what if he did?" angle?
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
Can someone humor me a bit here. Russia has pretty prohibitive gun laws. Limited to hunting rifles and shotguns under certain conditions. Handguns are generally not permitted. Which under an authoritarian regime makes sense. It keeps the population a bit more in check from overthrowing you.

So...this chick starts up essentially "NRA Moscow" under what we can assume is Putin's allowance. Is that whole thing just a ruse to gain American buy in of their gun advocacy? I have to assume that Putin has little to no desire to actually advocate the advancement of gun rights. It's nothing more than a "Murica friendly ruse to toss to our mouth breathing, red meat eating Trump base. Right?

yes
 

Cr0nJ0b

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2004
1,141
29
91
meettomy.site
How long before Trump Pardons her in the name of "international relations"? That would be just more icing on the cake. She doesn't have to testify if she's returned to Mother Russia...and he has the power to do that.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,403
8,199
126
Can a president pardon an non-US citizen?
And if he can....holy shitty optics.

The *ONLY* spin on that is she's just a young, beautiful aspiring woman who got caught up with some bad hombres comrades.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I used to say to myself, how can Russia possibly use what little media influence it has in order to sway an election compared to the entire media might of the western world? The answer? The NRA.

It mostly all makes sense now. Our election was never secure, I didn't believe it back in 2016 when Obama assured me that our election wasn't secure, except back then it was only a gut feeling, now there is solid evidence that the psy-ops campaign has been waging war on America's minds since Columbine.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Can a president pardon an non-US citizen?
And if he can....holy shitty optics.

The *ONLY* spin on that is she's just a young, beautiful aspiring woman who got caught up with some bad hombres comrades.

He can't, but that probably wouldn't stop him from trying.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,282
28,141
136
How long before Trump Pardons her in the name of "international relations"? That would be just more icing on the cake. She doesn't have to testify if she's returned to Mother Russia...and he has the power to do that.
Yeah he does unless they can get her into state court.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
He can't, but that probably wouldn't stop him from trying.

I'm pretty sure he actually can. The Constitution says the POTUS can issue pardons for "crimes against the United States." The nationality of the perpetrator isn't mentioned and is likely immaterial.
 

Cr0nJ0b

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2004
1,141
29
91
meettomy.site
I think in international relations he has a LOT of latitude. It would be quite simple for him to call this "national Security" and basically have her taken by the NSA, CIA whatever. Once that happens, a simple prisoner exchange...maybe Putin will exchange her for Snowden. Wouldn't that be fun. Putin F&*^s Snowden, Trump F$&*s the US and his base and Fox will be all happy happy joy joy over recovering the "true traitor".
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Can a president pardon an non-US citizen?
And if he can....holy shitty optics.

The *ONLY* spin on that is she's just a young, beautiful aspiring woman who got caught up with some bad hombres comrades.

Not sure but I am sure he could “classify” some info that is needed to convict her.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I used to say to myself, how can Russia possibly use what little media influence it has in order to sway an election compared to the entire media might of the western world? The answer? The NRA.

It mostly all makes sense now. Our election was never secure, I didn't believe it back in 2016 when Obama assured me that our election wasn't secure, except back then it was only a gut feeling, now there is solid evidence that the psy-ops campaign has been waging war on America's minds since Columbine.

Gotta throw in a swipe at Obama, huh? Obama said the electoral machinery was secure & there's scant evidence to the contrary. He made no claims as to the minds of the American electorate. GOP propagandists built the edifice of mindless hate & discontent that Trump & the Russians commandeered.
 

Cr0nJ0b

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2004
1,141
29
91
meettomy.site
I don't think there is ANY evidence that Russia was manipulating the actual voter data, Post-vote. What they did is take advantage of the soft underbelly of democracy. They used our free speech and willingness to believe unsubstantiated claims to sway middle of the road voters and to ignite a base that was looking for a voice. They will continue to do this...as long as there are people that will willingly forward rumors and innuendo in the public space, people will continue to be duped. Trump has gone a long way to support this agenda. He has convinced a lot of people that the truth is a lie and propaganda machine (fox) is the only good source for the truth. I just don't see a coming enlightenment for much of the country. They are looking deeper and deeper in to the well.
 
Reactions: dank69

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Gotta throw in a swipe at Obama, huh? Obama said the electoral machinery was secure & there's scant evidence to the contrary. He made no claims as to the minds of the American electorate. GOP propagandists built the edifice of mindless hate & discontent that Trump & the Russians commandeered.

Trump said the election was rigged. Obama should have responded as broad as the allegation. Considering the investigation into the election rigging wasn't as narrow as Obama's response, he is partially to blame as well.

This could have been avoided if the allegations raised by candidate Trump were taken seriously.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Trump said the election was rigged. Obama should have responded as broad as the allegation. Considering the investigation into the election rigging wasn't as narrow as Obama's response, he is partially to blame as well.

This could have been avoided if the allegations raised by candidate Trump were taken seriously.
They were, Mitch didn't want it out.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
Trump said the election was rigged. Obama should have responded as broad as the allegation. Considering the investigation into the election rigging wasn't as narrow as Obama's response, he is partially to blame as well.

This could have been avoided if the allegations raised by candidate Trump were taken seriously.
Oh yea, we would have stopped everything and suspended the election right. You are seriously delusional.
Edit: And also, the Democratic party would pay no political price for this. Once again, delusional.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,127
5,657
126
I think in international relations he has a LOT of latitude. It would be quite simple for him to call this "national Security" and basically have her taken by the NSA, CIA whatever. Once that happens, a simple prisoner exchange...maybe Putin will exchange her for Snowden. Wouldn't that be fun. Putin F&*^s Snowden, Trump F$&*s the US and his base and Fox will be all happy happy joy joy over recovering the "true traitor".

That was the Plan all along...

1 Hillary throws the election to Trump
2 Comey steps in a few days before the Vote to make sure it happens
3 Trump wins and proceeds to act like an idiot
4 Putin sees this and, over confidently, agrees to trade Snowden back to the US
5 Some cabal of power brokers somewhere rub their hands together in glee after getting their sweet sweet revenge....
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Oh yea, we would have stopped everything and suspended the election right. You are seriously delusional.
Edit: And also, the Democratic party would pay no political price for this. Once again, delusional.

What is the price of American freedom? We are the Russian state now, and the Democratic party is worrying about how cancelling the 2016 election because it wasn't secure from psy-ops or the NRA is going to play out in the 2018 mid-terms?

That is delusional, the country is gone, look around. This is war.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
They were, Mitch didn't want it out.

Jimmy, The Clap, Clapper, should be tried and hung for treason. He gave away the USA to Russian and during the election so he could sell a book that highlights some poignant regrets.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,664
24,964
136
They were, Mitch didn't want it out.

I hope Mitch is judged pretty harshly by history. The guy has been an absolute disaster when it comes to supporting the norms of American politics. Instead he has chosen to make noises that sound like the right thing but then either taken no action or the opposite action of of what the sounds coming from his mouth hole would indicate.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,651
10,515
136
What is the price of American freedom? We are the Russian state now, and the Democratic party is worrying about how cancelling the 2016 election because it wasn't secure from psy-ops or the NRA is going to play out in the 2018 mid-terms?

That is delusional, the country is gone, look around. This is war.
OK. I let you credit the Democrats with letting Trump win, does that make it better, concern troll.
 
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