RX100 Mk III alt for a Sonyphobe?

[vbuggy]

Various Sony experiences I've had over the last few years have gradually driven me away from them and right now I'm in total hater mode.

I gave my RX100 away (for non Sony hater reasons, someone else needed it more than me), and I'm wondering what I can buy that's competitive.

I'm half resigned to a situation where this is one time where there are no other competitors, but I'm looking for something actually pocketable which has reasonable reach and top image quality in the category. Lack of lens caps also pretty much a must.

Similarly targeted cameras I've had which I know don't fit the criteria for either lenscapness, size, quality or all three: Leica D-Lux (various), Olympus XZ-2, Canon S (various) / G1X, Fuji X10.

Anyone have viable suggestions? Or is it best to bury my hate and get the III?

 

[Syborg1211]

What do you intend to shoot with it? The Panasonic LX series is the closest competitor to the Rx in my opinion. The RX is really tops for pocketables though.

 

[vbuggy]

The D-Luxes are tweaked LX's. Not in contention. It'll be my primary camera.

 

[VashHT]

I looked around at compacts quite a bit before buying a RX100 Mk2 and I don't think you can really find an alternative that matches it in all the categories you mentioned. I was tempted to get the fujifilm X20 at the time, but it is not as pocketable and the image quality isn't quite as good. Personally I'd still go for the RX100 mk 1 or 2 unless you really need the brighter lens and viewfinder, I'm guessing if you're patient you could get some great deals on the earlier models.

 

[Syborg1211]

I looked around at compacts quite a bit before buying a RX100 Mk2 and I don't think you can really find an alternative that matches it in all the categories you mentioned. I was tempted to get the fujifilm X20 at the time, but it is not as pocketable and the image quality isn't quite as good. Personally I'd still go for the RX100 mk 1 or 2 unless you really need the brighter lens and viewfinder, I'm guessing if you're patient you could get some great deals on the earlier models.

^This. The mk3 actually has less reach on the telephoto lens, though brighter at all focal lengths. Also something people don't realize is that every generation has gotten thicker. I barely consider my mk1 pocketable depending on how baggy of pants you wear.

Why such hate for Sony? I agree they've done a lot of stupid things in the past with proprietary formats, but their photography division really seems dedicated to innovation these days.

 

[vbuggy]

TBH it's not the photography division I have a beef against specifically but the company in general. Given the number of times they're frustrated me in extreme ways I don't see why I should give them any more money. Which is why I'm searching.

I know the Mk III has porked up, but the lens change is worth having IMO if I had to go the Sony route.

 

[blastingcap]

Various Sony experiences I've had over the last few years have gradually driven me away from them and right now I'm in total hater mode.

I gave my RX100 away (for non Sony hater reasons, someone else needed it more than me), and I'm wondering what I can buy that's competitive.

I'm half resigned to a situation where this is one time where there are no other competitors, but I'm looking for something actually pocketable which has reasonable reach and top image quality in the category. Lack of lens caps also pretty much a must.

Similarly targeted cameras I've had which I know don't fit the criteria for either lenscapness, size, quality or all three: Leica D-Lux (various), Olympus XZ-2, Canon S (various) / G1X, Fuji X10.

Anyone have viable suggestions? Or is it best to bury my hate and get the III?

I freaking detest Sony's rootkit fiasco etc. but you know, forgiveness is divine and they did the right thing in PS4 (vs Microshaft's heavy handed ratcheting up of DRM in XBO which they only withdrew after Sony's pressure). I finally grudgingly bought a RX100 and haven't looked back since then; in fact I also got the A6000 for various reasons. The RX100M3 is definitely what I would have gotten instead of the RX100 if it had been available a couple of years ago--I'm a big fan of EVFs and how they can do things OVFs can only dream of, like peak focusing, zebra stripes, etc.

As a bonus the RX100M3's video is top of the line, with full sensor readout.

Also the RX100M3 is likely to give you the best bokeh of anything its size or less. Yes shorter focal length, but brighter. Crop if you have to, you have lots of pixels to play with.

The RX100M3 is barely larger than the M2 which is barely larger than the M1. It's not that much of a difference.

If you don't need as much punch as the M3 get the M1 or M2 version of the RX100, the M2 has a hotshoe useful for attaching flash. This may end up being important if it is your primary camera as you said. You get longer reach but less brightness at the tele end. On the other hand I'm a big fan of wideangles so I'd definitely get the M3's 24-70 equivalent rather than more-pedestrian 28-100 equivalent in the M1/M2. Plus the EVF thing.

Pany's less-pocketable LX7 etc. are ok but no EVF and it's still not as good in low light and not as pocketable.. it's like jacket-pocketable which sucks during summertime. You can buy an aftermarket lenscap replacement that auto-folds. http://www.amazon.com/PANASONIC-Came.../dp/B009K4QYWU

Canon's S120, etc. are a little worse in low light (especially at tele end), no EVF, but at least they're pocketable like RX100 series cameras. However for the price of a S120 you are close to RX100 pricing! The S120 should be priced way lower.

 

[vbuggy]

Yeah as I said I was kind of resigned to it. I was wondering if anyone could throw in a viable leftfield.

 

[AkumaX]

Yeah as I said I was kind of resigned to it. I was wondering if anyone could throw in a viable leftfield.

It has the hugest sensor of all the P&S's out there. Pretty decent lens too.

Only thing would be something like an NEX-6 + pancake, that's arguably "pocketable"

 

[blastingcap]

It has the hugest sensor of all the P&S's out there. Pretty decent lens too.

Only thing would be something like an NEX-6 + pancake, that's arguably "pocketable"

Yeah, emphasis on the "arguably" part. I have an A6000 which is basically the same size as an NEX-6, and even with the pancake 16/20 it's not pocketable the same way as an RX100 or S120. Jacket pocket maybe, but that sucks for summertime, plus you are limited to just that one focal length, whereas the RX100 series is either 28-100 or 24-70.

 

[tential]

I've never even liked taking pictures but after seeing the review, and seeing the size?

I really wish I could afford the $800 for this camera.

Do you think the price will ever get to the $500 range soon for it?

 

[CuriousMike]

Sony doesn't tend to fire-sale their cameras like Nikon, Panasonic etc.

Your best bet is to watch Craigslist or eBay - I imagine you can find the first generation on ebay for $500 now(?)

 

[vbuggy]

It has the hugest sensor of all the P&S's out there. Pretty decent lens too.

Only thing would be something like an NEX-6 + pancake, that's arguably "pocketable"

Yeah I'm aware of the specific advantages of the RX100. I was just not 100% sure if I'd considered everything else from niche makers.

I've had various NEX's - 5/6/7 - and the problem is the lens in terms of any degree of portability once you stick something of reasonable use on.

The only thing I don't have a ton of experience in is with Micro 4/3rds, since the only 4/3 camera I've bought in the last couple of years is the EM-5, which TBH I wasn't terribly impressed with (unlike everyone else it seems) for the images it churns out. But again, I'm not seeing anything that compelling in the 4/3rds world (or even a compact with a m4/3 sensor) right now.

With the RX100, the images still aren't that great either in absolutes but it's a jump enough from others in the field for me to carry it as a do-everything without feeling I've compromised too much, given that I'm not willing to tolerate anything much larger as an everyday carry (and certainly nothing with a lens cap, as I said). That feeling of excessive compromise all-around becomes very much a reality for example when I'm using or looking at images from the D-Lux 6 or the XZ. With something APS-C based then obviously in the vast majority of cases image quality isn't an issue, but the practicalities of size or other attributes just means I'm not taking the camera with me as often as it would be useful.

Given the sheer volume of my trial and error acquisitions I think there might be an even chance there might not be anyone around who is able to tell me what I don't know already but it's always good to ask anyway.

My ideal is the size of the RX100 Mk 1, I don't really need a viewfinder or a hotshoe, the lens with the figures of the Fuji X10 allied to an APS-C sensor. And definitely no lens cap.... all without a Sony badge on the front. I guess I'm out of luck, huh?

 

[drbrock]

I am a little heated with Sony myself right now. I bought a sony rx100 first gen and it went out on me during my thailand vacation last month. I bought the camera soley for these high end vacations.

It cost me 225 to fix the camera. It is pretty annoying that a 5-600 dollar camera would fail that easily. I even have had the sony case for it since day 1 and only use it for vacations. I have two canons now that have lasted for over 10 years and still going strong.

The PQ is amazing on the RX100 but I would think the product would last longer. Thank god I had Amex protection on it. Another 6 months and I would have thrown away the RX100 lol.

one thing I wish I did have was the wifi for the new models. I hate having to unscrew the sony case everytime I want to take my photos off of it.

 

[tential]

Sony doesn't tend to fire-sale their cameras like Nikon, Panasonic etc.

Your best bet is to watch Craigslist or eBay - I imagine you can find the first generation on ebay for $500 now(?)

It's 500 new on amazon for the first gen lol....

 

[CuriousMike]

one thing I wish I did have was the wifi for the new models. I hate having to unscrew the sony case everytime I want to take my photos off of it.

Look for the Eye-Fi Mobi card.
I use one on my D7100, my daughter uses one on her D60.

They work well.

 

[vbuggy]

I am a little heated with Sony myself right now. I bought a sony rx100 first gen and it went out on me during my thailand vacation last month. I bought the camera soley for these high end vacations.

It cost me 225 to fix the camera. It is pretty annoying that a 5-600 dollar camera would fail that easily. I even have had the sony case for it since day 1 and only use it for vacations. I have two canons now that have lasted for over 10 years and still going strong.

The PQ is amazing on the RX100 but I would think the product would last longer. Thank god I had Amex protection on it. Another 6 months and I would have thrown away the RX100 lol.

one thing I wish I did have was the wifi for the new models. I hate having to unscrew the sony case everytime I want to take my photos off of it.

I don't think it's worse built than any other similar camera - cameras are probably the last thing Sony knows how to build properly at this point in time, sigh. The real problem with Sony is when something goes wrong, it's always the customer's fault. My still ongoing VAIO issues for example have blown past farce a while back and is now firmly in surrealist mode.

 

[blastingcap]

I don't think it's worse built than any other similar camera - cameras are probably the last thing Sony knows how to build properly at this point in time, sigh. The real problem with Sony is when something goes wrong, it's always the customer's fault. My still ongoing VAIO issues for example have blown past farce a while back and is now firmly in surrealist mode.

Sony engineering is a notch above CaNikon engineering, look at lensrental teardowns and you'll see why. Sony does things like standardize screw sizes as much as possible, rather than have a bajillion different sizes; and consolidates parts more often. http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/201...de-sonys-awesome-full-frame-mirrorless-camera

 

[CptObvious]

I was set on getting an RX100 but I found a Nikon Coolpix A on closeout for about the same price. It has only a 28mm equivalent f/2.8 fixed lens, but an APS-C sensor without an AA-filter (nearly identical to the Ricoh GR V).

It's great. Not only does the image quality beat the pants off any Micro 4/3 or APS-C camera I've owned (the lens + sensor combo is brilliantly sharp) but it's smaller too. I thought I'd miss the lack of zoom but looking through my Lightroom catalog, I found the vast majority of my zoom shots were taken at the 28mm (or thereabouts) focal length.

Another option if you must have a zoom is the Panasonic GM1. Maybe not pocketable with the lens but the body is absolutely tiny.

 

[vbuggy]

GM1 - new to me. Thanks, perhaps worth investigating.

Every fixed-lens APS-C compact I've had has had speed issues in addition to the lack of reach, which I do use.

 

[AkumaX]

Yeah, emphasis on the "arguably" part. I have an A6000 which is basically the same size as an NEX-6, and even with the pancake 16/20 it's not pocketable the same way as an RX100 or S120. Jacket pocket maybe, but that sucks for summertime, plus you are limited to just that one focal length, whereas the RX100 series is either 28-100 or 24-70.

I meant the 16-50 pancake

But yeah, I just wear a lot of baggy shorts

 

[vbuggy]

Body of the GM1 = almost exactly same size as body of RX100 II.

GM1 kit lens = a lot more sticky out, and a lenscap.

GM1 sensor > RX100 III sensor.

GM1 reach with kit lens - even less than RX100 III, and at a smaller aperture across the range. How this equates given disparity in sensor size I haven't done the maths yet, but I'm betting on the Pana losing.

RX100 has viewfinder but as I said I don't really care in this category of camera.

GM1 has interchangeable lens, including some decent pancakes that might lend more versatility than the RX100. But would I use it is the question and the answer is very likely no, unless the kit is inadequate (i.e. too aperture-restricted) in which case the entire thing might not make sense.

I dunno... I think I might buy it to give it a try - at the very least until I cave and determine the Sony as the best choice after all. On the other hand, lenscap... urgh. I really hate lenscaps with a vengeance. Might steer clear after all. Maybe. Oh who knows jeez, it's actually a close call.

 

[CptObvious]

It sounds to me like the RX100 III is the best choice for you right now. I think Panasonic and Nikon are rumored to announce 1" sensor compacts at photokina, but they probably won't be available until towards the end of the year.

 

[vbuggy]

Yeah... I'm pretty much in agreement, but the GM1 is on balance intriguing enough to try. I think I'll just buy both and toss out the one I don't like. Unless anyone else has a better idea than the GM1 as the alternate...

 

[blastingcap]

Also consider the Samsung NX Mini if you are going that direction. But IMHO the RX100M3 is the truly pocketable, compact winner with more flexible focal lengths and fast apertures.