Question Ryzen 7 3700X - CPU throttled?

[ch33zw1z]

Hi all,

I've just got done upgrading my CPU / MB, and have a question about what I should be expecting from the processor / if it's throttling. Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3700X w/ stock wraith cooler and thermal grease
MB: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS (at latest BIOS)
DIMMs: G.Skill Ripjaws F4-3000C15D-16GRK - two sets, set to run at rated speeds.
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GTX 1660 Super

The CPU is said to run up to 4.4Ghz, but it's topping out around 4 at the most. Scenario:

idle temps start around 41-45C

1. Kick off a Handbrake job que.
2. Hardware Monitor shows CPU temp increase to 74-76C, CPU fan speed increases
3. CPU-Z shows Core speed around 3.8-3.9 (sometimes 4.0) Ghz
4. Windows Task Manager is the same

My question is based around the expectation that the CPU can get to 4.4. Because it stopped at 74-76C and is consistently hovering there, and the CPU speed is consistently at 3.8-3.9, I'm thinking that the system is throttling this CPU a little to "save" itself.

Has anyone else had this experience?

Pictures attached

EDIT: Reading this, it appears it's probably just deciding to throttle based on sensor readouts, might need to apply aftermarket thermal paste and/or buy an aftermarket cooler to get the max boost clock.

Also, maybe the latest driver, currently running the v2.11 from Asus's website

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-ryzen-chipset-2-13-27-501

 

[DrMrLordX]

You will not get 4.4 Ghz in a task like handbrake. You will only see it in something like SuperPi or Cinebench R20/R23 ST.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You will not get 4.4 Ghz in a task like handbrake. You will only see it in something like SuperPi or Cinebench R20/R23 ST.

Ok, cool, thanks for the reply. been a long time since I've looked at / used any benchmarking or stress test tools, but I'll check them out.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Just so you know, I was indicating that Zen2/Matisse only ever reaches and sustains its advertised boost clocks in single-threaded workloads.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Just so you know, I was indicating that Zen2/Matisse only ever reaches and sustains its advertised boost clocks in single-threaded workloads.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I must admit, that's a *tad* annoying, but the upgrade has still been huge so far. Encode times greatly reduced, and the few other tasks I've tested have been faster as well.

I did go ahead and install the latest AMD driver bundle, may as well since it's a new platform for me.

 

[scineram]

It is a 65W TDP chip, so all cores above 4GHz is unlikely without overclocking.

 

[Zepp]

"You will not get 4.4 Ghz in a task like handbrake."

"Zen2/Matisse only ever reaches and sustains its advertised boost clocks in single-threaded workloads."

It is a 65W TDP chip, so all cores above 4GHz is unlikely without overclocking.

curiously my 65W 4700G with an advertised boost Frequency of 4.4Ghz will hold 4.375Ghz on all 8 cores during handbrake jobs.

 

[ch33zw1z]

curiously my 65W 4700G with an advertised boost Frequency of 4.4Ghz will hold 4.375Ghz on all 8 cores during handbrake jobs.

An interesting topic. Over at the handbrake forums, there's some talk about more cores/threads and diminishing returns. IIRC, one of the dev's said HB is most suited for 6-8 threads at a time. Maybe if I reduced the threads used, it would behave differently

I just bought a Cooler Master 212 evo V2 to replace the stock cooler. It's $26 after rebate.

 

[Zepp]

An interesting topic. Over at the handbrake forums, there's some talk about more cores/threads and diminishing returns. IIRC, one of the dev's said HB is most suited for 6-8 threads at a time. Maybe if I reduced the threads used, it would behave differently

from what I've read it's more based on the target resolution and codec used. so 480p x264 would not scale to as many threads as 1080p x265.

I usually encode 720p x264, I'll have to test with SMT on/off and see how much the job times differ

 

[ch33zw1z]

from what I've read it's more based on the target resolution and codec used. so 480p x264 would not scale to as many threads as 1080p x265.

I usually encode 720p x264, I'll have to test with SMT on/off and see how much the job times differ

I've been using the Roku 4k preset, with only a modification to the subtitles section. 265 seems to save quite a bit of space, but I'm only noticing any quality loss in solid color areas, and so far that's only been in the all black sections. Like if someone is wearing a black jacket, it might look a little off with "noise"

 

[Jimzz]

curiously my 65W 4700G with an advertised boost Frequency of 4.4Ghz will hold 4.375Ghz on all 8 cores during handbrake jobs.

Might be a BIOS setting. Look at your power draw. My guess is your board is not adhering to the 65watt TDP.
Your chip is also 4.4Ghz single core rated, per AMDs site at the 65w TDP setting.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700g

The OP can adjust his bios specs to allow his chip to run at higher power and also get more frequency.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Might be a BIOS setting. Look at your power draw. My guess is your board is not adhering to the 65watt TDP.
Your chip is also 4.4Ghz single core rated, per AMDs site at the 65w TDP setting.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700g

The OP can adjust his bios specs to allow his chip to run at higher power and also get more frequency.

Pardon my noob, but are the bios changes putting the cpu out of spec? Or it's within AMD specs and just tweaking the bios defaults?

 

[Jimzz]

Pardon my noob, but are the bios changes putting the cpu out of spec? Or it's within AMD specs and just tweaking the bios defaults?

There are settings that allow the CPU to run at higher TDP/power. I did it on my 2700x and saw a couple hundred more in frequency but the power usage was not worth it. In your case it may help since you are a 65w TDP. My CPU is already well above that at default, 105w.

Look at your MBs manual and see if the setting is spelled out, might be PL1 and PL2? My board its under a weird name and not obvious.
My guess is your board has a hard set 65w TDP right now due to the CPU. But you can turn that off so it runs like a 90w+ CPU. Only issue is the heatsink may get hot if doing extended work at full speed. I put a cheap $20 6 pipe cooler on my 2700x and keeps it cool.

 

[UsandThem]

There are settings that allow the CPU to run at higher TDP/power. I did it on my 2700x and saw a couple hundred more in frequency but the power usage was not worth it. In your case it may help since you are a 65w TDP. My CPU is already well above that at default, 105w.

My Asus ROG Strix X470-F Gaming motherboard did the same with my 2700X.

By default, it had "core enhancement" and PBO on, and pretty much at their most aggressive settings. After a couple of changes, my 2700X runs much cooler and close to AMD spec.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There are settings that allow the CPU to run at higher TDP/power. I did it on my 2700x and saw a couple hundred more in frequency but the power usage was not worth it. In your case it may help since you are a 65w TDP. My CPU is already well above that at default, 105w.

Look at your MBs manual and see if the setting is spelled out, might be PL1 and PL2? My board its under a weird name and not obvious.
My guess is your board has a hard set 65w TDP right now due to the CPU. But you can turn that off so it runs like a 90w+ CPU. Only issue is the heatsink may get hot if doing extended work at full speed. I put a cheap $20 6 pipe cooler on my 2700x and keeps it cool.

Ok, thanks for the info. I'll revisit the topic after I get the cooler master installed and am more comfortable with the temps.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Meh, it seems to more temp based as expected. My kid pointed out that there's a L + H switch on the Wraith cooler, and I moved it to H. It gets about +800 RPM, which now has the CPU about 100Mhz faster, so now it's hovering around 3.9-4.0. I'm expecting the Cooler Master 212 v2 will help a bit more as well.

 

[Zepp]

Might be a BIOS setting. Look at your power draw. My guess is your board is not adhering to the 65watt TDP.

I suppose that's possible, I know PBO is not enabled. I'll have time this weekend to poke around and test. Do you know a monitoring software that will show currently set TDP?

Your chip is also 4.4Ghz single core rated, per AMDs site at the 65w TDP setting.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/apu/amd-ryzen-7-4700g

yes that's why I pointed out that it hit's it's single core rated boost on all cores during extended heavy load. this is with a wraith max cooler too. I assumed Renoir just clocks better than Matisse by default

 

[scineram]

Makes sense when power limited, since it is definitely more efficient.

 

[DrMrLordX]

curiously my 65W 4700G with an advertised boost Frequency of 4.4Ghz will hold 4.375Ghz on all 8 cores during handbrake jobs.

Renoir has some improvements over Matisse. Though I must admit that I am surprised by the high sustained clocks during a fairly-intense workload like handbrake. Typical 3700x samples struggle to exceed 4250 MHz all-core even when static overclocked.

 

[AmericanLocomotive]

The CPU is not going to throttle in any real tangible way until it hits 90°C. The real limit is power. Your CPU needs a certain voltage to hit a certain speed. But as the system increases voltage, the power your CPU consumes goes up. For your CPU, the maximum allowed package power is 88w. If you look at your picture, you can see the maximum package power was 87.97w - 88 watts. In general, AMD systems will apply as much voltage as possible to keep the PPT limit at or near 88w while under high load. Then based on whatever voltage they are able to run, the system will select a CPU speed.

BUT, higher CPU temperatures causes higher "leakage" in the silicon. The higher the leakage, the more power the CPU will use at a given voltage. So in that way, lower temperatures *COULD* allow higher frequencies, because the system will be able to pump more voltage into the chip before hitting the 88w power limit. So yes, temperature has an effect, but it's not directly controlling the CPU boost speed. Power and voltage are the direct controllers, but temperature influences that somewhat.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The CPU is not going to throttle in any real tangible way until it hits 90°C. The real limit is power. Your CPU needs a certain voltage to hit a certain speed. But as the system increases voltage, the power your CPU consumes goes up. For your CPU, the maximum allowed package power is 88w. If you look at your picture, you can see the maximum package power was 87.97w - 88 watts. In general, AMD systems will apply as much voltage as possible to keep the PPT limit at or near 88w while under high load. Then based on whatever voltage they are able to run, the system will select a CPU speed.

BUT, higher CPU temperatures causes higher "leakage" in the silicon. The higher the leakage, the more power the CPU will use at a given voltage. So in that way, lower temperatures *COULD* allow higher frequencies, because the system will be able to pump more voltage into the chip before hitting the 88w power limit. So yes, temperature has an effect, but it's not directly controlling the CPU boost speed. Power and voltage are the direct controllers, but temperature influences that somewhat.

Thank you for the input. I'm going by the AMD document here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/cpu-pb2

AMD indicates cooling is a priority, so I will focus on that first before I start to look at power. Just setting the fan speed higher gave me a bump, so I'm curious how the aftermarket cooler will impact this, if at all.

And all the way at the bottom:

It is a good guideline to know that light workloads experience the highest boost frequencies, while heavier multi-core and/or sustained workloads are more likely to encounter a limit and receive less boost.

A long workload like handbrake 4k encode may not achieve 4.4 ghz, but maybe the 4.0-4.1 I see right now.

 

[AmericanLocomotive]

Better cooling will allow the CPU to run higher voltage at a given power level. But ultimately you're still limited by the PPT limit, which is 88w. But based on my own experiences with my 3900X, we're talking maybe a 100 MHz difference between ~88°C and 65°C. You aren't going to start hitting 4.4GHz all-core boost* , even with great cooling.

*This assumes with stock power limit. If you increase the power limits, that may be possible.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Better cooling will allow the CPU to run higher voltage at a given power level. But ultimately you're still limited by the PPT limit, which is 88w. But based on my own experiences with my 3900X, we're talking maybe a 100 MHz difference between ~88°C and 65°C. You aren't going to start hitting 4.4GHz all-core boost* , even with great cooling.

*This assumes with stock power limit. If you increase the power limits, that may be possible.

Yep, understood. For me, if I can squeeze another 100+mhz with an after market cooler, I'll probably just call it a win. It's already a huge upgrade for me, a 4k movie encode took most 24 hours before, now it's roughly 6. Just learning the ryzen stuff at this point, it's been a while since I had an AMD platform

 

[DrMrLordX]

Even AMD guys are constantly having to relearn stuff. Zen1/Zen+, Zen2, and Zen3 all behave in unique ways. Zen2/Matisse is particularly sensitive to temps, and I think Der8auer found that -20C = +100 MHz at a given voltage/power level. Just be advised that that's hotspot temps, not bulk die temps. Hotspots can be a challenge.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Even AMD guys are constantly having to relearn stuff. Zen1/Zen+, Zen2, and Zen3 all behave in unique ways. Zen2/Matisse is particularly sensitive to temps, and I think Der8auer found that -20C = +100 MHz at a given voltage/power level. Just be advised that that's hotspot temps, not bulk die temps. Hotspots can be a challenge.

Just for clarity, bulk die == total temp read out, hotspot is individual core readouts?