Agreed but the 9800x3D is overclockable. We need to see reviews with a nice all core OC. They run those reviews at stock speeds.
Agreed but the 9800x3D is overclockable. We need to see reviews with a nice all core OC. They run those reviews at stock speeds.Yea, the 9800x3D looks spectacular only because ARL is such a disaster. That 45 game test shown here shows only 8% gain over 7800x3D. Good, but certainly less improvement than we are accustomed to seeing with a new generation from AMD. I shudder to think how progress will slow if Intel totally goes belly up and AMD has no effective competition.
I have seen some info about overclocking. Cant remember the source, and it was just preliminary data anyway. IIRC, simply enabling PBO didn't do much but raise power consumption, but they were able to eek out a few percent by changing other settings. I dont remember what they did, and not being familiar with AMD, I didnt really understand it. I thought overclocking AMD was just enabling PBO, but there is undervolting, expo, curve optimizer, frequency override. I think they may have tweaked all of those.Agreed but the 9800x3D is overclockable. We need to see reviews with a nice all core OC. They run those reviews at stock speeds.
I personally think it's best to wait for Zen 6. The 7800x3D crowd has reason to smile. If you need the best right now, 9800X3D is it. I think AMD should make 3D v-cache standard on all Zen 6 CPU's.I have seen some info about overclocking. Cant remember the source, and it was just preliminary data anyway. IIRC, simply enabling PBO didn't do much but raise power consumption, but they were able to eek out a few percent by changing other settings. I dont remember what they did, and not being familiar with AMD, I didnt really understand it. I thought overclocking AMD was just enabling PBO, but there is undervolting, expo, curve optimizer, frequency override. I think they may have tweaked all of those.
It looks rather spectacular against Raptor Lake too.Yea, the 9800x3D looks spectacular only because ARL is such a disaster.
Geomeans are trash. Basically 2/3rds,19 of the 30 games in that suite are double digits, a few 20% or more. 5090 should widen the gap in presently GPU bound titles. Productivity is also significantly better than the 7800X3D. Unlocked for overclocking is a feature advantage, it can boost performance in some apps and games; a win is a win.That 45 game test shown here shows only 8% gain over 7800x3D. Good, but certainly less improvement than we are accustomed to seeing with a new generation from AMD.
Thinking Intel is the only competition is shortsighted. Qualcomm entered the chat. Nvidia is coming. Client could look very different in 5yrs or so.I shudder to think how progress will slow if Intel totally goes belly up and AMD has no effective competition.
Just as hilarious as all the "pearl clutching", whatever that is, about how no progress was made because Intel was a monopoly. Of course somehow it will be different with AMD, because they are the "good guys"./sIt looks rather spectacular against Raptor Lake too.
Geomeans are trash. Basically 2/3rds,19 of the 30 games in that suite are double digits, a few 20% or more. 5090 should widen the gap in presently GPU bound titles. Productivity is also significantly better than the 7800X3D. Unlocked for overclocking is a feature advantage, it can boost performance in some apps and games; a win is a win.
Thinking Intel is the only competition is shortsighted. Qualcomm entered the chat. Nvidia is coming. Client could look very different in 5yrs or so.
And let me know when AMD has half of the market. All of the pearl clutching about a make believe AMD monopoly sitting on its hands is hilarious.
Just as hilarious as all the "pearl clutching", whatever that is, about how no progress was made because Intel was a monopoly. Of course somehow it will be different with AMD, because they are the "good guys"./s
I haven't looked at the video but I am guessing the "45 games test" is an "average game graphics FPS test".¹ If so, that's a system-level test. Notable improvements in such a test can (at most) be had with system-level changes. *Not* with CPU core microarchitecture changes alone.Yea, the 9800x3D looks spectacular only because ARL is such a disaster. That 45 game test shown here shows only 8% gain over 7800x3D. Good, but certainly less improvement than we are accustomed to seeing with a new generation from AMD.
I need to plugin the old hardrive to access my saved FPS numbers but going from a 5800x3d with 16gb ram to a 9800x3d with 64gb DDR4 ram has been huge. Not a small 10fps increase but a game is suddenly playable to the end change.I haven't looked at the video but I am guessing the "45 games test" is an "average game graphics FPS test".¹ If so, that's a system-level test. Notable improvements in such a test can (at most) be had with system-level changes. *Not* with CPU core microarchitecture changes alone.
Everybody who is waiting for the next big average game graphics FPS advancement, needs to wait for the next big computer system-level advancement. Not for the next CPU core generation.
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¹) Edit, that is, not e.g. low percentile game graphics FPS test, not e.g. simulation game turn time test, not e.g. a Chess or Go turn time test…
What about DIY desktop? That won't change, its still Intel vs AMD there and will be for a long time.What part of -that dynamic no longer exists - is giving you trouble? Client is not a 2 car race anymore. I'd be sweating Nvidia+MediaTek harder than Snapdragon if I were AMD. AMD HAS to do it differently than Intel did. Nvidia has shown what happens when you never take your foot off the gas.
Pat was probably fantasizing about that Nvidia life when he made the now infamous AMD in the rearview mirror quip that has aged like warm milk. He ended up eating AMD's dust before he crashed and burned. AMD could find themselves in second or even third place if they decide to drive heavy equipment again.
AMD HAS to do it differently than Intel did.
Certainly good bank to be made there. But it isn't near enough to "pull an Intel" by becoming complacent and resting on their laurels. AMD does not have IBM syndrome or the 90% share Intel had in every market they both compete in either. Lisa probably copies her cuz's playbook any chance she gets. I don't foresee them falling into such a trap.What about DIY desktop? That won't change, its still Intel vs AMD there and will be for a long time.
Qualcomm and Nvidia won't release desktop platforms with user upgradeable CPUs. AMD will have no competition if Intel cannot combat X3D.
You would know better than I; me being a filthy casual. That is definitely what I kept reading when vanilla Zen 5 wasn't the home run expected i.e. enterprise first is the strategy. That's okay with me as long as the PC gaming hardware is good bang for buck. If they fall off, I'll buy whatever other IHV has the goods. Even Intel, if my moratorium on them has expired by then.Or they can spend most of their wafer allocations and R&D on EPYC and MI chips. They'll be so busy rolling around in cash that they can probably take their eye off client a bit and not be hurt much.
You may be buying Qualcomm or Apple hardware then. Maybe we all will be.You would know better than I; me being a filthy casual. That is definitely what I kept reading when vanilla Zen 5 wasn't the home run expected i.e. enterprise first is the strategy. That's okay with me as long as the PC gaming hardware is good bang for buck. If they fall off, I'll buy whatever other IHV has the goods. Even Intel, if my moratorium on them has expired by then.
Not until the availability of gaming and other software (office, BOINC, etc,,) starts showing up. That is what has kept Microsoft in business so far and continues to be.You may be buying Qualcomm or Apple hardware then. Maybe we all will be.
Qualcomm is more likely since it has native Windows support. It all depends on their second iteration of X Elite and if app/game support improved by then.You may be buying Qualcomm or Apple hardware then. Maybe we all will be.
You can already run BOINC on Linux, no? Now the specific code modules may not run well if they're x86 assembler, so there is that issue. Apparently there is work ongoing in that area.Not until the availability of gaming and other software (office, BOINC, etc,,) starts showing up. That is what has kept Microsoft in business so far and continues to be.
Qualcomm is more likely since it has native Windows support. It all depends on their second iteration of X Elite and if app/game support improved by then.
That market is certainly the biggest x86 bastion (that and lots of legacy enterprise stuff).What about DIY desktop? That won't change, its still Intel vs AMD there and will be for a long time.
Qualcomm and Nvidia won't release desktop platforms with user upgradeable CPUs. AMD will have no competition if Intel cannot combat X3D.
Cool, I'll take the 10%-20% slower ST on x86 then..That market is certainly the biggest x86 bastion (that and lots of legacy enterprise stuff).
I doubt we'll ever see classical desktop PCs with socketed CPUs and RAM and 3rd party mobos, as long as Nvidia / Qualcomm / Mediatek are the only players. Only if AMD were to care about it.
Here is how I think Nvidia (and Qualcomm) will approach it:
- Initially they'll release bog-standard laptop and mini-pc SKUs in the 15-45W range. Nvidia will probably go for a a M4 Max style SKU for premium laptops and mac studio like desktop PCs (with up to mobile RTX xx70 level performance) using LPDDR.
- Then if there's interest they'll release a version with CAMM2 modules instead of soldered memory (initially only in prebuilt laptops and mini-PCs).
- This is where i think Qualcomm stops, but if there's demand I van see Nvidia eventually go for a ITX/mATX mobos with soldered CPU and CAMM2 dimms . It would certainly have M.2 slots and perhaps a single 16x PCIE slot (for Nvidia GPUs only of course).
This is of course far from certain and would only happen if the market actually cares. I doubt any of them would care enough to go much further, as any other PCIE add-in cards would require a ton of driver work to run seamlessly.
Qualcomm has 0 incentive to do that and Nvidia will 110% want to lock you in ther ecosystem, so only their GPUs get the pass (they'll obviusly brand it as a ”driver issue" and that "competitors are welcome to fix it"). They'll have no interest to sell socketed CPUs as that's even more work (especially backwards compatiblity) and they can't charge you for a new mobo + ram every generation. The only reason they'd even add the PCIE slot in the first place is to sell you their highest end GPUs once they're already sold you an oversized iGPU.
When that happens (or yikes, becomes the norm) it's a big loss for DIY builders for sure. It's certainly not what I would want them to do, but what I envison Jensen Huang would aim for.
As would I and most of the forum residents here, I'm sure.Cool, I'll take the 10%-20% slower ST on x86 then..
The biggest x86 bastion is commercial laptop.That market is certainly the biggest x86 bastion
I saw the NJ one had 20 in stock a week ago but was out of town then. I'm not in a rush to buy it and will just wait until it's more common.9800x3d was out of stock pretty much everywhere for a week+.
Today, 3 of the 5 NYC Micro Centers have fresh shipments. So it is not as desperate as it seemed.