Ryzen, Skylake, and everything that's coming next. (MEGA discussion thread)

[krumme]

I'm seeing rumors that X299 in its current form was designed for 10 cores max and won't properly support core counts over that. The socket will need a V2 revision in order to increase the TDP specs and support the higher core count chips, according tom the rumor.

http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-engli...commercialize-a-v2-edition-of-the-socket-2066

If - Its a mess like the tim but the alternative is Intel would have an expensive big 18c die that ended up slower in a 160w tdp than a tr 16c 180w. Aparently they think thats not the right way so they opt for more tdp.

Its a interesting move because it looks to me they have as a starting point both a perf/w disadvantage but also a huge cost diasadvantage vs smaller zen cores on infinity fabric. Imo its a lost cause and its thinking from the past. Instead of selling this solely at performance they should rather back down on it and sell as a balanced perf perf/w features and on stability and support using their brand.
Now they will have a 200w 16c that will look like a dinosaur vs a lean Epyc that is both faster and far more efficient at the expense of beeing just a tad more expensive. They are left with a 2000 usd product that have absolutely no hard hard advantages here and is not even in the same league as 1 socket epyc.

 

[Topweasel]

How can you be so sure. Is it an electrical/design limitation?

Intel has had a pretty predictable release cycle for the last 6 years. Per socket you get one intial release and one update. CL will start a new socket.

 

[Zucker2k]

If - Its a mess like the tim but the alternative is Intel would have an expensive big 18c die that ended up slower in a 160w tdp than a tr 16c 180w. Aparently they think thats not the right way so they opt for more tdp.

Its a interesting move because it looks to me they have as a starting point both a perf/w disadvantage but also a huge cost diasadvantage vs smaller zen cores on infinity fabric. Imo its a lost cause and its thinking from the past. Instead of selling this solely at performance they should rather back down on it and sell as a balanced perf perf/w features and on stability and support using their brand.
Now they will have a 200w 16c that will look like a dinosaur vs a lean Epyc that is both faster and far more efficient at the expense of beeing just a tad more expensive. They are left with a 2000 usd product that have absolutely no hard hard advantages here and is not even in the same league as 1 socket epyc.

Apple doesn't agree. Oh, they also managed to tuck one into a tiny form factor. Hmmm.

 

[krumme]

Apple doesn't agree. Oh, they also managed to tuck one into a tiny form factor. Hmmm.

The xeon as i read it? So what? I dont understand your argument.
Besides its also with vega 16hbm so its hardly selling in meaningfull numbers or even remotely so.
For what we know apple couldnt even use a tr or epyc if they wanted too. Intel probably have the rights and apple get their low prices. Meh.

 

[Zucker2k]

The xeon as i read it? So what? I dont understand your argument.
Besides its also with vega 16hbm so its hardly selling in meaningfull numbers or even remotely so.
For what we know apple couldnt even use a tr or epyc if they wanted too. Intel probably have the rights and apple get their low prices. Meh.

Haha, you are reaching

 

[T1beriu]

I'm seeing rumors that X299 in its current form was designed for 10 cores max and won't properly support core counts over that. The socket will need a V2 revision in order to increase the TDP specs and support the higher core count chips, according tom the rumor.

http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-engli...commercialize-a-v2-edition-of-the-socket-2066

1. I don't trust anything the Fake News Network bitsandchips say.

2. That's kinda silly. Current and previous Intel Xeon line-up go in from 4 to 24 cores in a TDP range from 95 to 165W, more or less.

 

[Bouowmx]

Intel has had a pretty predictable release cycle for the last 6 years. Per socket you get one intial release and one update. CL will start a new socket.

Intel socket H has only changed on Architecture (previously Tock): I predict Coffee Lake will continue to use the current socket H4 (LGA 1151); new socket for Ice Lake. Nothing about chipset support though.

You are right that a socket historically received 2 generations of products, but Intel also has not released 3 generations of same architecture.

 

[krumme]

1. I don't trust anything the Fake News Network bitsandchips say.

2. That's kinda silly. Current and previous Intel Xeon line-up go in from 4 to 24 cores in a TDP range from 95 to 165W, more or less.

Yeaa. And if its 165w tdp as H reports for the 16c thats what it is. Makes most sense to me also in relation to the tim. But it then comes at a hit of perf - That is if its not limited to 165 anyway because of the tim. You cant have your cake and eat it.

We need some betting for cb score . Skl x 16c 165w vs tr topend 16c 180w vs epyc 32c 180w.

 

[beginner99]

I don't know a couple technews videos say it might not be available till February now, like Intel was trying to pull it ahead, and now are pushing it back again.

Coffelake K-versions with Z370 will release in august. However other desktop chips and mobile are Q1 2018. Also there are rumors "real" new chipset will be in 2018 only and z370 will not have native USB 3.1. Eg. z270 with a new socket for Coffeelake.

 

[LTC8K6]

Change the title to the rumor thread...

 

[RichUK]

This thread should end well...

 

[ddogg]

I'm seeing rumors that X299 in its current form was designed for 10 cores max and won't properly support core counts over that. The socket will need a V2 revision in order to increase the TDP specs and support the higher core count chips, according tom the rumor.

http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-engli...commercialize-a-v2-edition-of-the-socket-2066

According to jayztwocents, I think the platform supported upto 12 cores and Intel threw that 18 core CPU at the last minute due to thread-ripper. This supposedly surprised even the board manufacturers.
I'm glad we are finally going to have some competition in the HEDT space as that 12C would have likely been $1700.

 

[tential]

I think Intel did make some last minute moves but I don't think they are anything more than for show. The part of the stack that majority of consumers are buying was always coming at the times they were supposed to

 

[T1beriu]

You don't need jay's 2 cents to back up that claim. Intel's move to 14-18 cores as a last minute scramble is visible from the moon just by looking at the leaks that showed the range going up to 12-core. The multiple insiders that keep spilling the beans admitting it, that's just the cherry pick on the top.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I'm seeing rumors that X299 in its current form was designed for 10 cores max and won't properly support core counts over that. The socket will need a V2 revision in order to increase the TDP specs and support the higher core count chips, according tom the rumor.

http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-engli...commercialize-a-v2-edition-of-the-socket-2066

The Bits and Chips guy should be ashamed of himself for saying this when it is false:

 

[T1beriu]

Owners of fake news sites have no honor to be ashamed. They do this for a living to pay their bills.

 

[iamgenius]

Interesting, so are u guys saying that i7 7700K current owners are stuck with it as the fastest cpu their z270 mobos can support? Meaning they have nothing to upgrade to as far as the cpu is concerned?

This is too sad to know now that Ryzen stirred things up and stimulated intel to be more competitive with their designs.

 

[Topweasel]

Interesting, so are u guys saying that i7 7700K current owners are stuck with it as the fastest cpu their z270 mobos can support? Meaning they have nothing to upgrade to as far as the cpu is concerned?

This is too sad to know now that Ryzen stirred things up and stimulated intel to be more competitive with their designs.

That's how it always is per socket Intel has had a Launch CPU and then a Refresh CPU. The z270 may have just come out, but it's the same socket as the z170. So people who got a 6700k can upgrade without replacing their board to a 7700. But yeah anyone jumping on the 270 7700 bandwagon, were always immediately at a dead end.

 

[formulav8]

18 core CPU at the last minute due to thread-ripper.

I wouldn't be surprised if anything above 12 core gets released this year from Intel. It was a PR announcement only probably due to AMD having 16 cores this summer and Intel will be on the lesser end.

 

[ddogg]

I wouldn't be surprised if nothing above 12 core gets released this year from Intel.

I think it's pretty much confirmed there is no 12+ core CPU from Intel this year.

 

[jpiniero]

They should be able to get the 12 out, since the decision to do that was a couple months ago. The larger cores, yeah, it's going to be awhile.

Edit: As for HEDT next year, it's Cascade Lake-X and Coffee Lake-X. I suppose they might juice the clocks a bit but presumably the only real difference would be extra cores at the price level. So nothing major. Wouldn't really expect anything new for mainstream until 2019 past Coffee Lake although it is possible Intel could refresh Coffee Lake-K in January.

 

[Edrick]

No love for the Power 9

 

[Arachnotronic]

No love for the Power 9

Wrong ISA

 

[dark zero]

No one remembers the VIA/Zhaoxin attack next year? Seems that they are about to Conroe this time...

 

[Topweasel]

1. I don't trust anything the Fake News Network bitsandchips say.

2. That's kinda silly. Current and previous Intel Xeon line-up go in from 4 to 24 cores in a TDP range from 95 to 165W, more or less.

For point number 2. Keep in mind that those will run at much lower speeds than what Intel has to offer in the i9 line. The 18 core they offer is 2.2GHz with max Turbo (not sure if this is all core or single core) of 3GHz. That isn't going to fly their Extreme platform.