Ryzen will support Windows 7

[coffeemonster]

While I do agree that it makes good sense to continue to support Win 7, I don't really get the Win 10 hate.. I love Windows 10, and experience zero issues using it..

pretty hard to believe. I switched to 10 on release and spent way too much time googling why one thing or another didn't work or how to disable unwanted features. Got fed up and reinstalled 8.1. I tried a few times after to switch again thinking they had ironed out the kinks. always something I have to spend time researching how to fix or disable. Then theres the start menu lag over 8.1, the slow restarts, less control with auto updates.
From a purely usability perspective win10 is a downgrade for me. DX12 isn't at a point where I'm missing anything there yet either.
<rant>
I don't really get the 8.1 hate. It's noticeably quicker than 7 with a few extra crappy integrated apps(settings) that you can ignore or uninstall. The start screen is the most logical evolution of the start menu. No idea why so many people prefer the menu. I didn't like the idea of the start screen at first but after using and customizing it, I realized how much more efficient it is.

 

[thehoj]

pretty hard to believe. I switched to 10 on release and spent way too much time googling why one thing or another didn't work or how to disable unwanted features. Got fed up and reinstalled 8.1. I tried a few times after to switch again thinking they had ironed out the kinks. always something I have to spend time researching how to fix or disable. Then theres the start menu lag over 8.1, the slow restarts, less control with auto updates.
From a purely usability perspective win10 is a downgrade for me. DX12 isn't at a point where I'm missing anything there yet either. 10 is literally the first time I've "hated a

<rant>
I don't really get the 8.1 hate. It's noticeably quicker than 7 with a few extra crappy integrated apps(settings) that you can ignore or uninstall. The start screen is the most logical evolution of the start menu. No idea why so many people prefer the menu. I didn't like the idea of the start screen at first but after using and customizing it, I realized how much more efficient it is.

Maybe it has to do with me being a late adopter?.. I didn't start running 10 until about 6 months ago..
I don't know, but honest to god zero issues with a clean install.
No driver issues, no application incompatibilities, no crashing or anything like that.
I haven't experienced start menu lag as far as I know, it seems pretty responsive to me.
I do agree though on the less control with auto updates, not a fan of that.

One thing I like about 10 is that it seems to handle scaling pretty well.. I run a 27" 4K monitor, and do the 150% scaling and I find that it works decently well with 10. Though to be fair, I didn't have the 4K monitor when I was running win7.

I've seen a few cases where people did an upgrade from 7, and then the OS seemed a bit off, kind of laggy.. But I think it's pretty poor practice to go to a new OS and not do a clean install.

As for 8.1, I don't have a problem with it either, I just prefer 10.

 

[superstition]

I don't really get the Win 10 hate.. I love Windows 10, and experience zero issues using it.. When I sit down at a Win 7 box now it just feels so dated to me.

1) Deeply-embedded multi-vector spyware, so deeply embedded that a Microsoft employee claimed it cannot be turned off

2) UI that's full of redundancies and which has very clashing UI design philosophies.

3) Microsoft's very aggressive manner of inducing people to "upgrade"

4) DirectX continuing to be used as a lever to force people into "upgrading"

5) Weariness over being forced to abandon a workflow that functions fine, in favor of frivolous changes

6) Consistent removal of the user's power to control the operating system

a) via removal of administrator control features for even the "Pro" version

b) via the bundling of multiple updates, force-feeding some you may not want

c) via the force-feeding of Windows updates

 

[daxzy]

1) Deeply-embedded multi-vector spyware, so deeply embedded that a Microsoft employee claimed it cannot be turned off[

2) UI that's full of redundancies and which has very clashing UI design philosophies.

3) Microsoft's very aggressive manner of inducing people to "upgrade"

4) DirectX continuing to be used as a lever to force people into "upgrading"

5) Weariness over being forced to abandon a workflow that functions fine, in favor of frivolous changes

6) Consistent removal of the user's power to control the operating system

a) via removal of administrator control features for even the "Pro" version

b) via the bundling of multiple updates, force-feeding some you may not want

c) via force-feeding Windows updates

1. And what about the majority market share people with non-rooted Android phones? I don't see you posting about how Android is even more invasive.

2. That's a problem. MS is fixing it, but slowly.

3. Probably too heavy handed for tech illiterate users.

4. DX12 has a lot of actual features.

5. Wow, you must hate Linux then.

6. That GroupPolicy change was bad.

 

[thehoj]

1) Deeply-embedded multi-vector spyware, so deeply embedded that a Microsoft employee claimed it cannot be turned off

2) UI that's full of redundancies and which has very clashing UI design philosophies.

3) Microsoft's very aggressive manner of inducing people to "upgrade"

4) DirectX continuing to be used as a lever to force people into "upgrading"

5) Weariness over being forced to abandon a workflow that functions fine, in favor of frivolous changes

6) Consistent removal of the user's power to control the operating system

a) Via removal of administrator control features for even the "Pro" version

b) Via the bundling of multiple updates, force-feeding some you may not want

c) Via force-feeding Windows updates

Might as well go back to XP then I suppose! lol. Everything has deeply embedded spyware these days..
As far as Microsoft's tactics in trying to "upgrade" people, that doesn't really affect the way the OS actually operates.

I agree with your other points about removing the user's power to control the operating system fully.. The problem (from my perspective at least) is that if you hang onto older OS technology, you end up being one of those guys running Windows XP when everyone else has moved on to 7 and you start missing out on advancements in OS technology.

 

[Elixer]

The key to support is with Microsoft, not Intel or AMD.

The OS has to support the new chip features that are found in KL and Zen.

Bulldozer had a slight problem with Win7 and threading that MS had to fix, for example.

I don't think there will be a problem with KL and Zen for Win7 for quite a while in any case.

That is the key here, while AMD could make chipset drivers, they CAN'T touch the kernel routines.
It is entirely possible (& probable) that Ryzen will be faster (and might have addition features) on win 10 than on win 7/8, since MS will be tuning the OS for Ryzen, like they did for intel CPUs.

You can also bet that AMD wants everyone on win 10 as well, that is the OS that they can showcase the best performance out of their CPU & GPUs.

 

[superstition]

1. And what about the majority market share people with non-rooted Android phones? I don't see you posting about how Android is even more invasive.

Tu quoque fallacy and red herring.

That's a problem. MS is fixing it, but slowly.

Nothing prevented the company from releasing a finished product instead.

Probably too heavy handed for tech illiterate users.

False. They are not the only people who complained. Not even close.

DX12 has a lot of actual features

Red herring.

Wow, you must hate Linux then

Tu quoque fallacy and red herring.

That GroupPolicy change was bad.

It was hardly an isolated decision. It is part of a pattern of removing user control over the OS.

 

[superstition]

since MS will be tuning the OS for Ryzen, like they did for intel CPUs.

Remember how poorly Windows 7 was tuned for Bulldozer and Piledriver?

As I recall, the eventual patches to fix the scheduling issues had to be manually hunted by AMD owners. It may have even been Agner Fog who uncovered the problem, rather than MS, although I'm not sure.

 

[superstition]

Might as well go back to XP then I suppose! lol. Everything has deeply embedded spyware these days..

Windows 10 clearly represents a higher level.

How would XP have less spyware than Windows 7?

As far as Microsoft's tactics in trying to "upgrade" people, that doesn't really affect the way the OS actually operates.

I explained why there is "hate" over Windows 10 with that list.

The problem (from my perspective at least) is that if you hang onto older OS technology, you end up being one of those guys running Windows XP when everyone else has moved on to 7 and you start missing out on advancements in OS technology.

That doesn't address the points I raised. Using levers to force people to do things that are contrary to their interests is something that exists but it doesn't make those things that are contrary to their interests non-contrary. Of course people are forced to "upgrade" (accepting various downgrades in order to gain critical things like security patches). That doesn't make the various regressions progressions.

As I said, there are people who are tired of having to abandon a workflow that functions fine for their needs in favor of frivolous changes. Many would prefer that new features be added in a less obtrusive manner — or that the OS would, at least, enable them to maintain the experience they're comfortable with via settings.

 

[Elixer]

Remember how poorly Windows 7 was tuned for Bulldozer and Piledriver?

As I recall, the eventual patches to fix the scheduling issues had to be manually hunted by AMD owners. It may have even been Agner Fog who uncovered the problem, rather than MS, although I'm not sure.

The initial hotpatch was still from MS, not AMD, and MS has flat out stated that they will NOT support new hardware for their old OS.
MS later rolled that patch into one of the service packs.

But, again, MS won't do it for Ryzen or intel's newer CPUs.

 

[superstition]

The initial hotpatch was still from MS, not AMD, and MS has flat out stated that they will NOT support new hardware for their old OS.

But, again, MS won't do it for Ryzen or intel's newer CPUs.

How many more years is Windows 7 still supposed to be supported? Bulldozer came out in 2011. If MS can't bother to support current CPUs on an OS that is promised to be supported for many years after the CPUs are released that's extremely poor.

Yet another reason to move to Linux. Let Microsoft say whatever it likes while the rest of us stop having to put up with bad policy.

MS later rolled that patch into one of the service packs.

I see. I was told otherwise. It's good to know that they at least did that.

 

[superstition]

No idea why so many people prefer the (start) menu.

1) It's less modal. It doesn't unnecessarily dominate the screen.

2) It's less cluttered.

3) It doesn't look chaotic because of shoddy UI design philosophy.

 

[spat55]

I just want AMD to hurry up and release Ryzen, they said it would be out by now, so it's been pushed back to March. CPU performance over the last 6 years has been so stagnant that if I wanted to I could live with this rig for another 5 easily.

 

[superstition]

I just want AMD to hurry up and release Ryzen, they said it would be out by now, so it's been pushed back to March.

Likely a wise decision, to give them more time to fix any last-minute bugs and to better tune the process and stepping. It has been an eternity since Piledriver was released, though.

 

[LTC8K6]

I just want AMD to hurry up and release Ryzen, they said it would be out by now, so it's been pushed back to March. CPU performance over the last 6 years has been so stagnant that if I wanted to I could live with this rig for another 5 easily.

RyZen has no CPU performance increase for us as far as I can tell.

There has been no hint that RyZen will outperform what we currently have available.

It perhaps will cost you less, though.

As far as all the discussion I have read, it looks like Intel may be able to effectively counter RyZen, if necessary, by price reductions.

 

[thehoj]

Windows 10 clearly represents a higher level.

How would XP have less spyware than Windows 7?

I guess I have a lame sense of humor. I was using hyperbole - suggesting that if you're going to run an 8 year old OS (Windows 7) you might as well just run 15 year old OS (Windows XP).

I explained why there is "hate" over Windows 10 with that list.

That doesn't address the points I raised. Using levers to force people to do things that are contrary to their interests is something that exists but it doesn't make those things that are contrary to their interests non-contrary. Of course people are forced to "upgrade" (accepting various downgrades in order to gain critical things like security patches). That doesn't make the various regressions progressions.

As I said, there are people who are tired of having to abandon a workflow that functions fine for their needs in favor of frivolous changes. Many would prefer that new features be added in a less obtrusive manner — or that the OS would, at least, enable them to maintain the experience they're comfortable with via settings.

Fair enough. I understand where you're coming from.
I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

 

[The Stilt]

Windows 7 works without any issues. Installing it is the tricky part. In order to be able to install Win 7 from a USB stick, you need to add the drivers to the installation .wim. Quite easy to do with the DISM tool, which is part of Windows.
Installing from a optical media shouldn't require any additional drivers.

 

[Atari2600]

RyZen has no CPU performance increase for us as far as I can tell.

If they sell a 6900K equivalent CPU at $500 with another $100-200 saved on the mobo, then I'd say for most of us who wouldn't shell out $1400+ for a CPU+motherboard, that is a massive performance increase.

 

[LTC8K6]

If they sell a 6900K equivalent CPU at $500 with another $100-200 saved on the mobo, then I'd say for most of us who wouldn't shell out $1400+ for a CPU+motherboard, that is a massive performance increase.

Per dollar I suppose. But I think we all want a plain CPU performance increase per core.

Maybe 15% at least.

 

[Atari2600]

Per dollar I suppose. But I think we all want a plain CPU performance increase per core.

Maybe 15% at least.

Personally, I'd like at least a 10000% improvement per core. Unfortunately I don't think its going to happen and I also doubt I would want to pay what they'd charge for it.

I'll live with no significant increase in absolute performance if it comes in at around half the price of the previous top-end.


Also, given where AMD are coming from, I'd take even a ~5% per-core deficit to KL as the future of the x86 market is at stake here.

 

[daxzy]

Tu quoque fallacy and red herring.

Google fanboys (and to a much lesser extend iPhone users) turning a blind eye to their phone while berating Microsoft for does less with their OS is certainly an irony.

Nothing prevented the company from releasing a finished product instead.

Software development has changed tremendously (for its merits and faults) to the world of Agile and CI. Why are you only complaining in this Windows 10 thread and not on the numerous Android or Linux threads?

False. They are not the only people who complained. Not even close.

Citation please. I know there were a couple of companies that sued, and one actually won some monetary damage (under 4 digit settlement). I see a bunch of twitch/youtube clips or random forum ramblings of forced upgrades but nothing concrete. If people were forced to upgrade, there would be more lawsuits with monetary settlements or at least a class action lawsuit that paid cash. Seems to be lacking.

Red herring.

DX12 has more features than DX11 is a herring?

Tu quoque fallacy and red herring.

Name another modern PC OS that does not have UI or syntax changes. Your choices seem to be Debian Linux, Fedora Linux, MacOS.

It was hardly an isolated decision. It is part of a pattern of removing user control over the OS.

List other user controls that were taken away.

 

[DaveSimmons]

This is wandering off-topic but:

>> List other user controls that were taken away.

Windows Update can no longer be made manual. When it is active you can't stop or pause the service. You can't even schedule when downloads happen, only when they are installed. MS-Father Knows Best.

Also, regarding Windows 7: Dell Business still advertises it as the default OS for many of their PCs, with fine print mentioning a Win10 license is also included.

 

[dsplover]

Excellent share.
I love Windows 7.
NVMe is supported and I control services, not M$.

Defender can "help" someone else.

AMD just got my money for a pair of 8 Cores.

 

[PPB]

Well, in my experience w10 works better in cpu overhead scenarios than windows 7. Obviously telemetry, forced updates are not of my liking. But it shows that at least on a haswell platform w10 makes a difference in gaming.

I dont know if CCX cluster design and zen's smt needs some awareness from the OS. I think actually amd went with this kind if design to get the same benefits from os scheduling intel gets by having a comparable cpu, in broader terms.

Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk

 

[nopainnogain]

Provided it's not another failure of Bulldozer proportions.

Well, if this is not threadcrapping, then I don't know (yet) what threadcrapping is. No offense.