I always say that to Moon but he is stuffing his pc with AMD cpu and gpu. There simply isnt any space left here.
/jk
Standard conspiracy theory that makes no sense at all if you take your red glasses off.
As usual with Ryzen, things tend to get very emotional and overblown. A few games, mostly DX9, seem to not perform optimally with Nvidia cards at the moment. Doesn't mean there's a big controversy or something is "broken" and needs "fixing". It just means Nvidia, like everyone else, will have to profile and optimize for this brand new architecture. I'd expect these few performance anomalies to get fixed and general performance to improve in the next few driver updates.
I have a hard time believing Nvidia wouldn't have seen this issue already when testing Intel's HEDT for years.
I just hope Nvidia will have this fixed in a few months and that it'll benefit all 6+ core systems.
It's not just DX9, that would be understandable though a bit surprising. It's just another example of how bad Nvidia's drivers have been running on Ryzen since release. DX12 is just one big mess that probably will continue with Vulkan. DX9 being funky I can live with. This DX12 mess is both terrible in the sense that this where we are going in games and also that the problem is the exact opposite of what is happening. DX12's big thing is making MT easier in fact some basic CPU work is split with little effort. So the DX12 on Nvidia benches that tank on 1600, 1700, and 6900 but run better on a 7700 when compared to the DX11 versions of these games is absolutely infuriating. We know its not the games because Radeon's still scale fine in these games. If this was a DX11 issue and DX12 was fine that would be one thing. But the fact that thread scaling doesn't work on DX12 is not good, the fact that it only happens on Nvidia takes the problem to another level.
Sure there are ways for games to leverage the extra CPU's and that is what AotS is doing, RTS's have tons of room for multithreading AI and unit movements and such. But that still doesn't resolve the main issue. That is in these 4-5 games that have DX11 and either DX12/Vulkan. DX11 scales on both AMD and Nvidia setups and any game going to the trouble of supporting DX12 is going to be more threaded than most DX11 games. They also scale properly on AMD setups in DX12, just not on Nvidia setups above 4c8t. Sure a game developer can use more cores for other work to better utilize the cores but there is inherent support that Nvidia has killed in the name of optimizing the driver for 7700 to mitigate its CPU overhead in DX12. I don't think Nvidia is purposely tanking Ryzen. But it's a trend I don't to be a part of if the DX12 penalty wasn't bad enough, I wouldn't want to pay $400+ on GPU that in future games will only run at its premium in single CPU implementation. Upping the res mitigates this and I am running a 4k monitor right now. But its still a messy business that really makes me want Vega to be high end with a halfway decent price/perf. Nvidia has time to straighten it out but it still leaves a bad taste in the mouth.Mostly DX9 games. Too few DX12 games out there to draw any conclusions. As we saw with AotS, simple optimizations can completely change the playing field. ROTTR is probably another example of a game that needs a Ryzen patch (it's just GPU bound on the 1060 and Fury).
It's no secret that Nvidia have been doing some driver trickery (that's a technical term) with DX12 to compensate for the less flexible Pascal architecture, moving some tasks from the GPU to the CPU (scheduling etc.). It's also not surprising that this "trickery" was made for Intel quad-core CPUs, as they were by far the most common up until now. With more than 4 cores in use (for the driver trickery bit), it might simply be that the overhead from coordinating all those threads outweighs the performance benefit.
nVidia knows, and they've known since Intel HEDT CPUs launched. They just can't do anything about it without completely rearchitecturing their driver which is optimized for DX11 and extracting the most performance out of their hardware using a software scheduler.
Edit: Poll choices are rather extreme. I voted yes they knew, but I don't think you can attribute it to malice. More of because "fixing" it would require so many resources it's not worth it to them (yet).
The only thing thats baffling to me is that they havent fixed it yet.
It is Ryzen specific. Show me a benchmark where an Intel 6 core suffers like that. At worst, it performs like a quad core of the same architecture. These Ryzen CPU's are performing terrible, much worse than you would expect. Performance doesn't only fail to scale with more than 4 cores, Ryzen actually goes way backwards as far as performance is concerned with an Nvidia GPU. The situation is not the same for Intel CPUs. This problem is so obvious it just sticks out like crazy in these reviews.
BF1 DX11 720p
6900k 143.8
1800X 122.4
7700k 116.4
BF1 DX12 720p
6900k 122.4 down 14.9%
1800X 90.7 down 25.9%
7700k 127.6 up 9.6%
Deus Ex DX11 720p
6900k 106.7
1800X 80.5
7700k 87.1
Deus EX DX12 720p
6900k 83 down 22.2%
1800X 63.6 down 21%
7700k 83.6 down 4%
Rise of the Tomb Raider DX11 720p
6900k 165.7
1800X 135.7
7700k 152
Rise of the Tomb Raider DX12 720p
6900k 172.5 up 4.1%
1800X 117.5 down 13.4%
7700k 168.2 up 10.65%
Total War Warhammer DX11 720p
6900k 45.5
1800X 40.3
7700k 43.3
Total War Warhammer DX12 720p
6900k 34.6 down 24%
1800X 30.7 down 23.8%
7700k 42.4 down 2.1%
It is Ryzen specific. Show me a benchmark where an Intel 6 core suffers like that. At worst, it performs like a quad core of the same architecture. These Ryzen CPU's are performing terrible, much worse than you would expect. Performance doesn't only fail to scale with more than 4 cores, Ryzen actually goes way backwards as far as performance is concerned with an Nvidia GPU. The situation is not the same for Intel CPUs. This problem is so obvious it just sticks out like crazy in these reviews.
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...and-discussion.2499879/page-215#post-38823668
Ryzen loses a bit more than the 6900k but there is ZERO evidence that those extra issues are Nvidia issues not Ryzen or game specific issues.
We know for example that some games could not count the cores and threads right for Ryzen and that's not on Nvidia.
Nvidia has no reason to harm Ryzen as it would result in better Radeon sales and share losses for Nvidia.It would only get much worse when Vega arrives.
Imported. I didn't even realize that the numbers from the computerbase was yours. I have copy pasted those into other forums so much that I completely forgot where I originally got them from. Anyways, this is me crediting your stuff late.
No I understand. I was just clicking on the link you posted and saw the exact same formatting and thought to myself, oh yeah that's where I got them from. I mean they are Computerbase numbers, but I am to lazy to actually type them out myself. It was more me thanking you for putting the effort in originally it makes it really easy to basically give a quick summary when pointing people to the Computerbase review.Thanks but it's ok, only noticed that you've already posted them after i posted, didn't do it to take credit.
No I understand. I was just clicking on the link you posted and saw the exact same formatting and thought to myself, oh yeah that's where I got them from. I mean they are Computerbase numbers, but I am to lazy to actually type them out myself. It was more me thanking you for putting the effort in originally it makes it really easy to basically give a quick summary when pointing people to the Computerbase review.
And it's not a terrible choice but it's also a dichotomy that I am completely opposed to. I am a feature guy. I get what does what I need now but also has things I might use in the future. Obviously there will still be 7600 purchasers, 7700 purchases and so on. But I am not swapping out parts all the time I need equipment that will run what I need today but also tommorow.nVidia designs for what reviewers are using today. With today being the operative word. They'd rather sell you something for tomorrow, tomorrow.
nVidia designs for what reviewers are using today. With today being the operative word. They'd rather sell you something for tomorrow, tomorrow.
Excellent apology, or lame excuse, depending on point of view.nVidia designs for what reviewers are using today. With today being the operative word. They'd rather sell you something for tomorrow, tomorrow.
Except they try to ensure that tomorrow doesn't come. It's much more profitable to sell you the same gpu over and over.nVidia designs for what reviewers are using today. With today being the operative word. They'd rather sell you something for tomorrow, tomorrow.