S|A: (rumour) Apple dumps Intel from laptop lines

[Soleron]

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/05/05/apple-dumps-intel-from-laptop-lines/

I had to put rumour in the thread title because otherwise people's heads would explode, but Charlie is certain of this.

 

[Idontcare]

I can believe it, given the track record of the moles that Charlie cites, but I can't help but to think it is Apple's funeral (hyperbole of course) as there is no way a Denver chip is going to compete with 28nm bobcat or 22nm Atom when it comes to power/performance in that performance category.

But I say good luck to Apple. If anybody can make ARM be sexy for replacing x86 it would be Apple to do it. Personally though I'm foresee another Newton on their hands.

 

[aphelion02]

Holy crap, I was just telling my coworker a few hours earlier that the convergence of iOS and OSX might let Intel use their relationship with Apple to get x86 into phones. If this is true....

 

[IntelCeleron]

I think it's funny that this comes on the heels of Intel's Tri-Gate announcement......

 

[darkswordsman17]

So, this is dependent on ARM getting x64 codepath? Could that be why they've been reported to be interested in AMD?

Things are getting very interesting in the CPU world these days. Every other day there's a huge announcement or rumor.

 

[Cogman]

Well, it isn't impossible. Apple has switched platforms semi-recently, I could see them doing it again.

It will be interesting to see what (if anything) happens to legacy applications in Apple. This is going to tick off the good people at Steam who have been working hard at making Mac ports of popular games.

If they can get an ARM performing at or faster than the x86 architecture that very well may start the death spiral of x86 quite nicely. On the other hand, this could be a huge turd for them (As IDC mentioned, another newton).

They key, in my mind, is going to be if they can get performance up to snuff. (though, to be honest, most mac users don't use their macs for performance intensive tasks.. even a slow ARM might be a reasonable switch).

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Why would they want to do this? Intel is ahead of everybody else in terms of process technology, this gives them a huge advantage in terms of power consumption, speed, and heat. I just can't see how an ARM chip manufactured at TSMC or Samsung would give Apple the same kind of performance in the same power envelope. Though GF may be amenable to a new customer, I don't think Intel will be too happy selling manufacturing capacity in their fabs to Apple when they just kicked them out of their market. Though, to be fair, NVidia's roadmap for ARM chips is very aggressive.

Also, wouldn't this mean having to port OSX into ARM as well? I don't know what happened when they switched from Power to x86, but is this difficult, or just a non-issue?

 

[Dark Shroud]

I can believe it, given the track record of the moles that Charlie cites, but I can't help but to think it is Apple's funeral (hyperbole of course) as there is no way a Denver chip is going to compete with 28nm bobcat or 22nm Atom when it comes to power/performance in that performance category.

But I say good luck to Apple. If anybody can make ARM be sexy for replacing x86 it would be Apple to do it. Personally though I'm foresee another Newton on their hands.

^This 100%. ARM will not be able to match Intel's "CPU" cores or AMD's "GPU" cores in their mobile SOCs for years.

Also there goes running x86 Windows & Steam games on OSX.

 

[IntelCeleron]

Also, wouldn't this mean having to port OSX into ARM as well? I don't know what happened when they switched from Power to x86, but is this difficult, or just a non-issue?

I suspect, just like with X86, that Apple has had it ported all along.

 

[aphelion02]

I suspect, just like with X86, that Apple has had it ported all along.

I think thats actually the reason for the move. They want iOS-OSX convergence, so it was either ARM on laptops or x86 on phones. I guess 22nm Medfield didn't impress.

 

[Terzo]

I see a few people mentioned the Steam coders porting work going to waste, but wont this affect a bunch of programs? For example, is the Adobe line of products capable of running on whatever Apple is switching to? From what I understand Apple doesn't care much for Adobe, but I feel like losing the capability to run programs like Photoshop would anger a lot of OSX users.

In short, does this mean all third party software will not be compatible with the new line of laptops (and the article said desktops too, right?) unless ported by someone?

 

[IntelCeleron]

I see a few people mentioned the Steam coders porting work going to waste, but wont this affect a bunch of programs? For example, is the Adobe line of products capable of running on whatever Apple is switching to? From what I understand Apple doesn't care much for Adobe, but I feel like losing the capability to run programs like Photoshop would anger a lot of OSX users.

In short, does this mean all third party software will not be compatible with the new line of laptops (and the article said desktops too, right?) unless ported by someone?

I'm also guessing they'd have some form of Rosetta for X86 like they did for PPC?

Edit: Or they don't care too much and are looking to leverage developers from the iPhone and their huge app install base? Maybe a combo of all three?

 

[nanaki333]

so much for osx86 updates

 

[Terzo]

I'm also guessing they'd have some form of Rosetta for X86 like they did for PPC?

Edit: Or they don't care too much and are looking to leverage developers from the iPhone and their huge app install base? Maybe a combo of all three?

All are plausible. I'm sure Apple has put much more thought into this than I ever will, but I'm a bit stupefied to hear the rumor. While I have a bit of an affinity for AMD (have yet to own an intel proc), I'm under the impression that Intel the best in processor technology. Hoping Bulldozer will even things up a bit though.

Maybe Apple figures processing power is more than sufficient for the average consumer, so they're focusing on reducing size and power consumption rather than increasing performance?

 

[IntelCeleron]

All are plausible. I'm sure Apple has put much more thought into this than I ever will, but I'm a bit stupefied to hear the rumor. While I have a bit of an affinity for AMD (have yet to own an intel proc), I'm under the impression that Intel the best in processor technology. Hoping Bulldozer will even things up a bit though.

Maybe Apple figures processing power is more than sufficient for the average consumer, so they're focusing on reducing size and power consumption rather than increasing performance?

That is really the only thing I can think of at the moment too. But it kind of blows me away that this rumor comes post Tri-Gate. Apple may be privy to something.....

 

[gevorg]

Does this increase the the odds of Apple buying ARM?

 

[Schmide]

I usually don't comment on this, but why would Intel show their hand with the 3d transistors unless they wanted to sway a big client? They don't need more good news and they have the top everything sans video cards.

 

[podspi]

I'm also guessing they'd have some form of Rosetta for X86 like they did for PPC?

Edit: Or they don't care too much and are looking to leverage developers from the iPhone and their huge app install base? Maybe a combo of all three?

The only problem is that when Apple switched to x86 the CPUs they were switching to were faster than the CPUs they were switching from.

In this case, it is hard to see how that could be possible.

Does this increase the the odds of Apple buying ARM?

Apple doesn't need to buy ARM. They have an architecture license and that gives them all the control they need to make their own CPUs.


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The first thing I thought of when I heard of this was "There goes bootcamp", but then I remembered that Windows 8 will have an ARM port. Is this a perfect storm we're seeing here?

 

[RobertPters77]

Wow. I'm speechless.

If this is true then apple might try to buyout ARM and fuck over anyone else who wants to use the architecture.

 

[IntelCeleron]

The only problem is that when Apple switched to x86 the CPUs they were switching to were faster than the CPUs they were switching from.

In this case, it is hard to see how that could be possible.

Oh, I agree.

 

[mnewsham]

Yea, i just remembered M$ is going to support ARM in windows 8 too so this could be interesting. If ARM takes off in the next year or two Apple could already have some hardware out there to draw in developers and such while integrating OSX with iOS possibly. Sounds fun.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I think this is bullshit. Sounds like a crazy move.

 

[n7]

My expression:

But actually, it somewhat makes sense.

As usual, only time will tell...

 

[Kingkazma]

i doubt it, i mean a big slice of mac users are professionals... like people in hollywood and the recording business. this means apple just ditched that market for the mass.


thats kinda dumb considering how almost everyone in hollywood's uses apple.

seriously, i don't see arm being super powerful, its not that arm sucks, its just that x86 has proven time over time, to be the king of raw power.

i dont see pixar giving a damn about performance per watt, i mean look at the size of their render farm.

 

[cotak13]

Blah I don't think so.

Yeah sure Apple's going to ditch x86 and go ARM. Yep they are going to seppuku themselves using an iKatana.

God people would believe anything on the internet if someone say they have a source. Apple's not stupid. Their high end stuff is very dependent on performance. You can't take away from people fast top end processor speed to do digital image process and video processing. They do that and those guys will all jump ship to PC like mass of rats off a sinking ship. Which is what a sudden switch to ARM would be.