S|A: (rumour) Apple dumps Intel from laptop lines

[Arkadrel]

What if apple simply purchased AMD?

That would be awesum. Apple does have a big following, and their own design'ed products where they could make use of AMD's products.


Not sure about the x86 license AMD has, what happends if theyre bought.
But if Apple is planning a total abandenment of x86, it wouldnt be a issue.

And we would be seeing "fusion" apu's with ARM+Radeons, that would be suited for GPGPU to enhance the ARM CPU computeing power where needed. They would be small and lowpower, and endup in everything mobile.

I believe Apple has a license for makeing their own ARM cpu designs, so AMD guys that made x86 cpu's, would be set to work on high end ARM cpu designs under the Apple name.

It seems like there would be "synergy" for both sides from a move like that.

 

[cantholdanymore]

Of course, Intel and AMD won't be standing still either. But look at the direction that Apple is increasingly moving towards. Lower power, longer battery life, thinner, lighter, solid state storage (spinning platters/optical discs are going extinct in Cupertino). Apple secretly wants all their laptops to be as thin as the MacBook Air, and all their desktops to be the size of a hockey-puck. Power users be damned. This is a post-PC world now, and Apple is making bank off casual users (just look at iPad sales).

Exactly :thumbsup:
Every day more households don't own a land line, same as desktop computers. People like laptops and even that is old news since people started to migrate towards pads. In the future apple may even abandon the MacPro line.

 

[trollspotter]

i doubt it, i mean a big slice of mac users are professionals... like people in hollywood and the recording business. this means apple just ditched that market for the mass.


thats kinda dumb considering how almost everyone in hollywood's uses apple.

seriously, i don't see arm being super powerful, its not that arm sucks, its just that x86 has proven time over time, to be the king of raw power.

i dont see pixar giving a damn about performance per watt, i mean look at the size of their render farm.

The funny thing is...Disney owns Pixar, which was previously owned by Apple. That sale made Steve Jobs the single largest shareholder of Disney. He's the perfect man to shove this crap down everyone's throats.

Besides, it's starting to look more and more like people are betting on cloud computing taking over much of this computational necessity.

 

[Dribble]

I think it is more likely that apple is preparing for heterogenous multicore. Using ARM cores whenever possible, and only waking x86 cores when absolutely necessary.

The problem is you aren't allowed to do that with x86. You can basically buy a cpu and motherboard off Intel or AMD. You can't design your own x86, or include some x86 cores in your heterogeneous chip. Intel won't allow it. That's part of the reason why ARM is so popular - they license pretty well whatever you want to anyone who wants it. As for Apple buying AMD - I'm pretty sure Intel would fight tooth and nail to stop apple developing any x86. If apple did buy AMD it wouldn't be for x86 - not to say it couldn't happen, they'd still get ati, a load of experienced engineers, and lots of patents.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I don't know myself. If everthing Intel reported about 3D(TRI-Gate) is as claimed it really does change everthing. Suddenly You have dual cores IB using zacata type power at IB performance . The other possiabilities are mind boogling , Intels announcement was Massive in scale as to how the processor tech just leaped forward. Others in this business are reeling from this announcement. People are scrambling . This was in fact a leap. SB was being praised . SB just got blindsided. And everone else got KOed. This Fight is over . Planar is no longer a factor. Ya know what Apple needs . A fab . AMD doesn't have a fab. Apple doesn't need AMD. Imagination Tech is serving Apple very well in the Arm sector . If the other fabs can't come up with there FinFit(dual-gate) before 15nm . BUY INTEL STOCK RIGHT NOW

 

[IntelCeleron]

That would be awesum. Apple does have a big following, and their own design'ed products where they could make use of AMD's products.

Everybody talks about this, but does Apple really want to go up against Intel? I doubt it. As much as Apple likes to avoid relying on outside sources for things.

Although Arnold Kim of MacRumors dug this up: http://bit.ly/mCqYPi Which is interesting, but that was a different time of course.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Apple would be better off buying VIA instead of AMD. But again they would have to go up against Intel.

And we would be seeing "fusion" apu's with ARM+Radeons, that would be suited for GPGPU to enhance the ARM CPU computeing power where needed. They would be small and lowpower, and endup in everything mobile.

This is what Nvidia is trying to do. AMD could easily just buy their own ARM license and "slap" something together. But it's more profitable to just continue to shrink Bobcat cores.

 

[Ajay]

The funny thing is...Disney owns Pixar, which was previously owned by Apple. That sale made Steve Jobs the single largest shareholder of Disney. He's the perfect man to shove this crap down everyone's throats.

Apple never owned Pixar, Steve jobs bought the company that became Pixar from Lucasfilms graphic's division. When Jobs started working at Apple, he was also CEO of Pixar, till he sold it to Disney.

 

[Phynaz]

Apple never owned Pixar, Steve jobs bought the company that became Pixar from Lucasfilms graphic's division. When Jobs started working his second stint at Apple, he was also CEO of Pixar, till he sold it to Disney.

Clarified that for you.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

i doubt it, i mean a big slice of mac users are professionals... like people in hollywood and the recording business. this means apple just ditched that market for the mass.


thats kinda dumb considering how almost everyone in hollywood's uses apple.

seriously, i don't see arm being super powerful, its not that arm sucks, its just that x86 has proven time over time, to be the king of raw power.

i dont see pixar giving a damn about performance per watt, i mean look at the size of their render farm.

What are you talking about. Most Apple users are sheep. They will dump their current hardware to get the latest iProduct. It doesn't matter if that product is better, it's newer and cooler so they have to have it. Even if it involves repurchasing software to run on it.

As far as Intel is involved, Apple is nothing but a small drop in the bucket compared to the big customers of Intel.

 

[Cerb]

Besides, it's starting to look more and more like people are betting on cloud computing taking over much of this computational necessity.

...over low bandwidth networks with high latency? Yeah...fads come, fads go, then they come back with new names.

More likely: people will have enough computing power, and do it locally on their portable device. Cloud computing taking over for local hardware computation might work in South Korea or Japan, but nowhere else in the civilized world has anywhere near the potential network capacity (read: urban population density) for the pie-in-the-sky cloud computing taking over BS to become reality. Unless every cell tower were to become a mini-mainframe, networks would become swamped, and user input latencies would be too high to be usable/productive. OTOH, we are very close to tablets having all the features and computing power we need for daily tasks, and both RAM and flash are getting cheap enough to have plenty on small devices. If the likes of Apple, Qualcom, TI, and Microsoft play their cards right, we could start seeing such replacements for netbooks and such in 2-3 years (OK, technically, a few exist, but what exists mostly sucks for the cost). Once enough non-Apple people are buying them, the interface/software situation will begin to gel, companies will better figure out what HW and SW people want, and so on, and so forth, and the desktop PC, which will not die, will become slightly more marginalized.

 

[formulav8]

Intel can blame themselves for hoarding x86 licensing. Even if AMD and Intel started to 'seriously' work together they can't stop the ARM train coming through. ARM will eventually directly compete with them in some of the 'traditional' x86 markets.

 

[Voo]

...over low bandwidth networks with high latency? Yeah...fads come, fads go, then they come back with new names.

Well you know I've been in South Korea, Japan, Europe and the US in the last time and apart from the US with its atrocious networks (although as long as AT&T stays out you may still stand a chance!) I don't see much problems from that direction.

You guys though? Goodness you should really hope it doesn't take off - but just looking at the US is a bit narrow for such trends.

 

[lifeblood]

Intel can blame themselves for hoarding x86 licensing. Even if AMD and Intel started to 'seriously' work together they can't stop the ARM train coming through. ARM will eventually directly compete with them in some of the 'traditional' x86 markets.

Rumours of the demise of x86 are greatly exaggerated. I think x86 is in no danger because of Intels Fabs and associated superior process. As long as Intel has the premier fabs and process, it can overcome the shortfalls of x86 with smaller/faster/less leaky x86 processors.

Of course, AMD with its less advance Global Foundries Fabs may have a hard time competing with Arm. I bet that's why AMD is getting chummy with Arm, they're hedging their bets and playing both sides of the field.

 

[wahdangun]

I think you all forget one thing, intel really want to ditch x86 hell they even talking about hybrid dual core, but intel plan got burned when amd launching athalon64, and since ms doesn't support intel plan and goes to amd instead for simpler way didn't helped at all, so in the red face intel beg amd to get their x64 license by offering their sse3. So its not impossible for intel to go to new architecture after all amd in the weak spot right now. But seeing arm will talk in fusion it make me think maybe amd will include arm technology in their fusion cpu to make it more efficient for tablet market or a new cpu architecture like arm-x86 maybe?

 

[jpeyton]

As far as Intel is involved, Apple is nothing but a small drop in the bucket compared to the big customers of Intel.

The bigger problem for Intel is that ARM-based devices are garnering increasingly higher shares of an end-user's time with computing devices. http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-a...ng-Laptops-Desktops-Go-Unused-Nielsen-782748/

Power users will still need Intel. But an overwhelming majority of the market doesn't. The success of iOS/Android and mobile-devices have shown that people are more than willing to sacrifice absolute performance for good-enough performance in exchange for mobility. Shipments of ARM-based processors hit 1.85 billion units in Q1 2011.

Also, an x-factor to consider is that Apple could close or eliminate the ARM/Intel performance gap through optimization. Going back to their vertically-integrated strategy, it's a well-known fact that through OS optimizations Apple MacBooks have much better battery life running OSX than running Windows. As OSX and iOS slowly merge, Apple could easily create snappy and fluid desktop environment that runs on ARM-based processors.

 

[Phynaz]

I think you all forget one thing, intel really want to ditch x86

They wanted to ditch x86 and go with Itanium at the time so they would have an architecture they wouldn't have to license to AMD.

so in the red face intel beg amd to get their x64 license by offering their sse3

There is an x86 cross licensing agreement between the two companies. Nobody goes begging.

But seeing arm will talk in fusion it make me think maybe amd will include arm technology in their fusion cpu to make it more efficient for tablet market or a new cpu architecture like arm-x86 maybe?

Here's the odds of AMD building a CPU containing both the x86 and ARM instruction sets:
If it happens in the next several years I will buy you one

 

[Hyperlite]

The bigger problem for Intel is that ARM-based devices are garnering increasingly higher shares of an end-user's time with computing devices. http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-a...ng-Laptops-Desktops-Go-Unused-Nielsen-782748/

Power users will still need Intel. But an overwhelming majority of the market doesn't. The success of iOS/Android and mobile-devices have shown that people are more than willing to sacrifice absolute performance for good-enough performance in exchange for mobility. Shipments of ARM-based processors hit 1.85 billion units in Q1 2011.

Also, an x-factor to consider is that Apple could close or eliminate the ARM/Intel performance gap through optimization. Going back to their vertically-integrated strategy, it's a well-known fact that through OS optimizations Apple MacBooks have much better battery life running OSX than running Windows. As OSX and iOS slowly merge, Apple could easily create snappy and fluid desktop environment that runs on ARM-based processors.

That is certainly true, however there is so much more than just their desktop environment to consider, unless they think there is really that little of their user-base that cares about "3rd party" apps. Which now that i think about it, is probably true.

Nevertheless, unless they come up with some magical solution for running X86 apps, etc without straight-up ports, they are going to snub a lot of noses.

And we would be seeing "fusion" apu's with ARM+Radeons, that would be suited for GPGPU to enhance the ARM CPU computeing power where needed. They would be small and lowpower, and endup in everything mobile.

That's like, the future, man.

 

[Soleron]

Shipments of ARM-based processors hit 1.85 billion units in Q1 2011.

And revenue to ARM from them was very small indeed. The per-unit royalties are tiny. So even if ARM has success they will never have the budget to go up against even AMD's R&D spending never mind Intel.

They can get small technology leads by hiring better engineers instead of more, but they can't possibly get a permanent advantage while Intel's revenue is so much higher.

 

[cotak13]

And revenue to ARM from them was very small indeed. The per-unit royalties are tiny. So even if ARM has success they will never have the budget to go up against even AMD's R&D spending never mind Intel.

They can get small technology leads by hiring better engineers instead of more, but they can't possibly get a permanent advantage while Intel's revenue is so much higher.

A point that everyone some how misses. And for such a large company Intel has very high agility. Mostly because while other companies have only the budget to focus on 1 idea and they have to get it right, intel can try more than one thing. Just as Microsoft also has the budget to try out things.

So I wouldn't read too much into Microsoft ARM windows.

Just because a rumor from a not that reliable site (screw his supposed record about apple, he's been wrong way more often) say something's going to happen in 2 years (a bloody eternity in this industry by which time all those who believe would have forgotten his prediction if he's wrong) time everyone's all worked up and "so sure" that it's going to happen. Lemmings running for a cliff comes to mind.

 

[formulav8]

Rumours of the demise of x86 are greatly exaggerated. I think x86 is in no danger because of Intels Fabs and associated superior process. As long as Intel has the premier fabs and process, it can overcome the shortfalls of x86 with smaller/faster/less leaky x86 processors.

Of course, AMD with its less advance Global Foundries Fabs may have a hard time competing with Arm. I bet that's why AMD is getting chummy with Arm, they're hedging their bets and playing both sides of the field.

My post wasn't intended to say x86 is doomed. There will ALWAYS be a market for x86 processors, period. What I was saying is its Intels own fault for being a greedy gut and not allowing a single additional player in the x86 market. Perhaps someone who could have focused on small device style cpu's or whatever. Intel would have still made money via royaltys anyway. And it could have kept the market to ALWAYS depend on Intel one way or another. So if x86 loses markets do to ARM (Or someone else), then you can thank Intel for that. Unfortunately Via doesn't seem to have the budget to make a real ARM competitor. They've been trying for a long time now to make it in the low-powered market and just can't seem to make much headway. The nano is not to shabby but its still to high in power consumption apparently. (I know not enough about them).

AMD is in no danger of going out or anyrthing. And GF WILL Definitely be a major contender through the coming years. They have a huge budget backing them up now and it will eventually show.

This is all just my opinion which could be wrong in more than one area


Jason

 

[smartpatrol]

I think you all forget one thing, intel really want to ditch x86 hell they even talking about hybrid dual core, but intel plan got burned when amd launching athalon64, and since ms doesn't support intel plan and goes to amd instead for simpler way didn't helped at all, so in the red face intel beg amd to get their x64 license by offering their sse3. So its not impossible for intel to go to new architecture after all amd in the weak spot right now. But seeing arm will talk in fusion it make me think maybe amd will include arm technology in their fusion cpu to make it more efficient for tablet market or a new cpu architecture like arm-x86 maybe?

Intel would love to ditch x86. . . for their own proprietary ISA that they have complete control over. Not for ARM.

The ONLY way Intel would ever transition to ARM is if they have no choice. They would much rather stay in the x86 market, where their profit margins are MUCH higher and their only competition is AMD. Why would Intel ever want to switch to selling cheap ARM processors and competing against several other ARM licensees?

It's not impossible that Intel could get back into the ARM market, but they won't go willingly. It will only happen if ARM starts seriously eating Intel's lunch in mobile, PCs, and servers. And even then, they would still keep x86 around for legacy and niche applications, much in the way they keep making Itanium CPUs.

 

[podspi]

Unfortunately Via doesn't seem to have the budget to make a real ARM competitor. They've been trying for a long time now to make it in the low-powered market and just can't seem to make much headway. The nano is not to shabby but its still to high in power consumption apparently. (I know not enough about them).

Every time I hear about Via I am amazed they are still in business. What are they actually selling these days? Their boards on newegg are about as expensive as Atom boards, and I am pretty sure the Atom wins against non-Nano Via CPUs, which all the ones on Newegg appear to be.

 

[acx]

Every time I hear about Via I am amazed they are still in business. What are they actually selling these days? Their boards on newegg are about as expensive as Atom boards, and I am pretty sure the Atom wins against non-Nano Via CPUs, which all the ones on Newegg appear to be.

Via will live as long as Formosa Plastics Group wants to keep it alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosa_Plastics_Group

http://english.cw.com.tw/article.do?action=show&id=3450

 

[Khato]

As others have said, it's not surprising in the least that Apple wants to get back to having complete control over as much of their hardware platform as possible. They don't care about having the best hardware, their marketing department is free to go back to the powerPC days where they make absurd claims about their superior performance... So they may very well be planning to ditch x86 for their in-house designed ARM processor, it might even work for them since ARM performance will likely be adequate at that point.

That said, the combination of engineering resources and a process technology lead that will likely only grow is probably going to give Intel's offerings a solid lead in both performance and power... the problem being that that might not matter much at that point unless there are new usage models that actually make use of it.