S2000 tows a boat

[kami333]

Just take a look at what the same car is rated for towing in Europe vs the US. A good example is in Subarus, the 2004 Forester XT is rated to tow 2400lbs (with brakes) in the US but is rated for 1800kg (~4000lbs) in Europe and Australia.

 

[w00t]

surprised it was able to tow, considering the car has no low end torque.. very peaky ( vtech y0 )

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
PCFW, you made three epic errors in insulting me incorrectly.

1) You incorrectly assumed I meant they were towing another car, a Dodge Caravan. :facepalm:
2) You incorrectly assumed the towed item was un-braked.
3) You shot out with insults before understanding what happens in the real world, where not everyone uses a 15 ton vehicle to tow a dozen eggs.

Daw123 has posted a link to the Caravan Club, the largest and most respected club of it's type in the UK. One that both my Grandparents and Parents have been members of for decades. I've seen the best part of eight different Caravans (not Dodge...) towed by all types of family car. They are all very experienced and if you were to discuss this issue with them, they would laugh so hard at you milk would come out of their collective noses.

Here's a link so you could learn a thing or two, but you won't. You'll claim it's all wrong, false, fake, stupid and dangerous or plain lame. None of which will really matter.

http://www.campingandcaravanni...ar%20and%20Caravan.pdf

1. I won't learn anything from that link. I just looked at it, and it says pretty much EXACTLY what I've been saying the entire thread.

2. I did ASSume a Dodge Caravan when you first posted. I already acknowledged that, and for that, I'm sorry. However, you COULD have just told us that's what you were talking about, instead of being a baby and doing what you did.

3. I did not assume the towed "item" was unbraked. I do remember saying that is SHOULD be.

4. You keep throwing generalizations and exaggerations about "everyone using a 15 ton truck to tow eggs", and other such utter nonsense. Let me just give you some info: I AM in the real world....the one where nobody should exceed their factory towing specs.

FYI, your parent's Civic isn't rated to tow much of anything. In fact, that link you gave most likely spells out WHY they shouldn't be towing with it. I could tell you if you had posted exactly WHAT "Caravan" they have and WHAT model Civic they have. Maybe their trailer only weighs 200lbs. (doubt it)

So, take that link and why don't YOU read it?. It'll tell you exactly what I've been saying. You have to do the math. If your parent's trailer load falls within the limits after doing the math, then they are good to go. I seriously doubt that it will, though. Then again, you COULD have just told us what trailer it was, right? Instead of jumping to lots of bullshit conclusions, like you just did. So go ahead.....tell us what trailer it is and how much it weighs, LOADED.....and what Civic they have, and let's all do the math. That'll settle the whole thing, right? And if they're within specs, I'll be the first to say so.

Because your parents HAVE actually WEIGHED their trailer, LOADED.......right? Right? Like anyone who tows something that's obviously going to be near their towing capacity SHOULD do?

Oh, wow. What a surprise THAT response was...

OK, I'm only going to indulge you simply because it's fun to own people.

UK Specification Honda Civic 1.8i ES 5 door.

Weights and Capacities

Boot capacity to window seat down (litres, VDA method) 1352
Boot capacity to window seat up (litres, VDA method) 485
Fuel tank (litres) 50
Kerb weight (kg) 1357
Maximum roof load (kg) 80
Maximum towing weight with brakes (kg) 1000
Maximum towing weight without brakes (kg) 500
Maximum trailer nose weight (kg) 75

Just so you're aware that's a 2200lb braked towing capacity.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Don't see how that owns anyone. All you did was list the specs for the car. That's a start. Your car specs are higher than they are in other places, that's for sure. That doesn't equate to you "owning" anyone, it just means that you should have listed that up front.


Tongue weight, (or nose weight, as it is listed) 75kg. That's 165lbs. Not much...then again, if it's a small trailer, it might not have much.

So you still didn't list the Loaded trailer weight, or anything else I mentioned. If it's a small trailer, say 500lbs, then it should be good to go, loaded and ready to travel. But if it's bigger, like much over 1000lbs, then you will be risking being over the limits.

Here's the deal: No car can "realistically" tow the maximum. Why? Because that max capacity is based on a base model vehicle with 1/4 tank gas, and a 150lb driver. So your Civic, with no options, 1/4 tank gas (petrol to you) and a 150lb driver, can tow that 2200lbs, provided the tongue weight is within spec also. (a good rule of thumb for tongue weight is 10% of the total trailer weight)

Every pound you load into the trailer, every pound you load into the car, takes away from how much the car can tow. What you load into the trailer also will likely add to the tongue weight, which can't be over 165lbs....and that's pushing it on a 2200lb trailer.

So, let's say your Dad weighs 180lbs. That's 30lbs less of trailer weight. Subtract another 58lbs for a full tank of gas. Subtract Mom's weight. How much gear/clothes/ice/food do they carry? All of it matters. Does Dad keep any tools or anything else in the trunk? Does anyone else (sibling, you, friends, relatives) travel with them?
See? It adds up FAST. Or subtracts fast, whichever way you want to look at it. You can come up with an extra 1000lbs in a hurry. Suddenly, that 2200lb towing capacity is down to just over 1000.

That's why I keep telling people to add this stuff up. That's why I say no car can tow at or near the maximum trailer weight, in a real-life situation. That's why people like me, who are highly experienced in this area, tell people to buy more tow vehicle than they think they need.

Nobody EVER complains about having too much vehicle to tow with.

Now, this said....if your parents' trailer is one of those tiny 5-750lb deals, then they are probably well within their Civic's UK specs, unless they also carry insane amounts of gear. But if that's a medium-sized, 1000lbs or higher trailer, I'd still be willing to bet that they are at least VERY close to maxing those specs out, if we could get an honest estimate of how the trailer and car are loaded for a trip.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Don't see how that owns anyone. All you did was list the specs for the car. That's a start. Your car specs are higher than they are in other places, that's for sure. That doesn't equate to you "owning" anyone, it just means that you should have listed that up front.


Tongue weight, (or nose weight, as it is listed) 75kg. That's 165lbs. Not much...then again, if it's a small trailer, it might not have much.

So you still didn't list the Loaded trailer weight, or anything else I mentioned. If it's a small trailer, say 500lbs, then it should be good to go, loaded and ready to travel. But if it's bigger, like much over 1000lbs, then you will be risking being over the limits.

Here's the deal: No car can "realistically" tow the maximum. Why? Because that max capacity is based on a base model vehicle with 1/4 tank gas, and a 150lb driver. So your Civic, with no options, 1/4 tank gas (petrol to you) and a 150lb driver, can tow that 2200lbs, provided the tongue weight is within spec also. (a good rule of thumb for tongue weight is 10% of the total trailer weight)

Every pound you load into the trailer, every pound you load into the car, takes away from how much the car can tow. What you load into the trailer also will likely add to the tongue weight, which can't be over 165lbs....and that's pushing it on a 2200lb trailer.

So, let's say your Dad weighs 180lbs. That's 30lbs less of trailer weight. Subtract another 58lbs for a full tank of gas. Subtract Mom's weight. How much gear/clothes/ice/food do they carry? All of it matters. Does Dad keep any tools or anything else in the trunk? Does anyone else (sibling, you, friends, relatives) travel with them?
See? It adds up FAST. Or subtracts fast, whichever way you want to look at it. You can come up with an extra 1000lbs in a hurry. Suddenly, that 2200lb towing capacity is down to just over 1000.

That's why I keep telling people to add this stuff up. That's why I say no car can tow at or near the maximum trailer weight, in a real-life situation. That's why people like me, who are highly experienced in this area, tell people to buy more tow vehicle than they think they need.

Nobody EVER complains about having too much vehicle to tow with.

Now, this said....if your parents' trailer is one of those tiny 5-750lb deals, then they are probably well within their Civic's UK specs, unless they also carry insane amounts of gear. But if that's a medium-sized, 1000lbs or higher trailer, I'd still be willing to bet that they are at least VERY close to maxing those specs out, if we could get an honest estimate of how the trailer and car are loaded for a trip.

I don't really understand why you are convinced they are doing it wrong and that you're the #1 towing expert. Many people, much better people than yourself, have deemed it safe and within specification, yet you keep demanding that only you can assure what can be towed by any given vehicle. Give me a break and maybe give your over inflated ego a break, too.

I have some freshly laid brick walls here if you'd like to bang your head against those instead?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

I don't really understand why you are convinced they are doing it wrong and that you're the #1 towing expert. Many people, much better people than yourself, have deemed it safe and within specification, yet you keep demanding that only you can assure what can be towed by any given vehicle. Give me a break and maybe give your over inflated ego a break, too.

I have some freshly laid brick walls here if you'd like to bang your head against those instead?

And I don't know why you are so dense. I never said they are doing it wrong. I simply threw out a couple of scenarios, one in which they might be overloaded, and one in which they probably aren't.

Then I asked about the trailer. How is that declaring myself the "expert"? I have no doubt there are many people more versed in towing than I. Just like I very obviously know more about it than you. And you might know more about it than someone else. And so on.
Every single aspect of figuring what a vehicle can tow I've posted is correct, as evidenced by the link you provided, which backed up everything I said, and was actually irrelevant to your actual situation. Obviously, you simply found the link but never read it.


But YOU are the one who claimed they were well within specs. All I asked for was some numbers, so we could do the math and see why it either is or isn't. It's not about proving you wrong or me right. It's about showing people how to do it, and you have a real-life example that YOU brought up that I thought would be a good one to use.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: brblx
i hope he's said his goodbyes to his transmission.

Not to mention the brakes on a small sports coupe are not going to do well at all trying to stop with a '20 foot boat in tow..

Hope I never see that dumb SOB behind me trying to stop that load with that little car.

BTW, if he ever had an accident with that setup, he'd have been sued to oblivion if there were any injuries. He would've have no leg to stand on at all.....that car, no matter what you do to it, is not rated to carry that load, and is a totally unsafe setup.

I wouldn't recommend towing with an S2000 either, but I have to laugh at these comments.

My 2006 S2000 has 11.3" front rotors and weighs roughly 2800 pounds. It will stop from 70 MPH in roughly 155 feet, which is Porsche 911 territory.

A 2006 Ford F-150 crew cab with the big 5.4L V8 has 13" front rotors and weighs roughly 5500 pounds. Before you attach a trailer or passengers, the F-150 already has to stop nearly a full TON more weight than the S2000. It's no surprise than it stops from 70 MPH in roughly the same distance as the Exxon Valdez even without a trailer.

I'd estimate an S2000 towing a small boat would stop in roughly the same distance as an F-150 with four adults inside and no trailer. You would have to double to total weight of the S2000 with passengers just to match the F-150 with passengers. That's a pretty good handicap to start off with before adding a trailer. And the S2000's wheels allow far more passive cooling to the brakes than the F-150's.

And, like a truck, the S2000 places most of its stiffness and rigidity down low in the body. There might be some concerns about trailer sway whipping it clean off the road and the clutch would take a beating from a stop, but in terms of what would happen to the frame and brakes and stuff, I really wouldn't worry about it. This isn't a Civic we're talking about.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

I don't really understand why you are convinced they are doing it wrong and that you're the #1 towing expert. Many people, much better people than yourself, have deemed it safe and within specification, yet you keep demanding that only you can assure what can be towed by any given vehicle. Give me a break and maybe give your over inflated ego a break, too.

I have some freshly laid brick walls here if you'd like to bang your head against those instead?

And I don't know why you are so dense. I never said they are doing it wrong. I simply threw out a couple of scenarios, one in which they might be overloaded, and one in which they probably aren't.

Then I asked about the trailer. How is that declaring myself the "expert"? I have no doubt there are many people more versed in towing than I. Just like I very obviously know more about it than you. And you might know more about it than someone else. And so on.
Every single aspect of figuring what a vehicle can tow I've posted is correct, as evidenced by the link you provided, which backed up everything I said, and was actually irrelevant to your actual situation. Obviously, you simply found the link but never read it.


But YOU are the one who claimed they were well within specs. All I asked for was some numbers, so we could do the math and see why it either is or isn't. It's not about proving you wrong or me right. It's about showing people how to do it, and you have a real-life example that YOU brought up that I thought would be a good one to use.

Well here's the interesting part, then. If your intentions were really as in the bolded part of you post then why the constant insults and personal attacks?

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

"your parents are idiots. "

"Rather than just cry and run off"

"jumping to lots of bullshit conclusions"

"I don't know why you are so dense."

Nice way to go about business right there. I have absolutely no requirement to fulfill demands from anyone that posts like that. Do you think I'd tell you, or even continue a conversation with you, if you were like that in person? No effing way. Your nobody, so don't come off with 'requirements' backed up with insults as you're not worth the time or trouble. I was simply posting an alternative view to towing, you called my parents stupid, I told you they weren't. FIN.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Okay, evidently you weren't man enough to accept my earlier apology, and are still butt-hurt over it, even though you've flung several similar insults yourself. Have it your way.

then why the constant insults and personal attacks?

First one I apologized for, the rest were in response to the same from you, sweetie.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Okay, evidently you weren't man enough to accept my earlier apology, and are still butt-hurt over it, even though you've flung several similar insults yourself. Have it your way.

then why the constant insults and personal attacks?

First one I apologized for, the rest were in response to the same from you, sweetie.

:laugh: Now I'm not man enough? Grow up.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Okay, evidently you weren't man enough to accept my earlier apology, and are still butt-hurt over it, even though you've flung several similar insults yourself. Have it your way.

then why the constant insults and personal attacks?

First one I apologized for, the rest were in response to the same from you, sweetie.

:laugh: Now I'm not man enough? Grow up.

Okay, so what is it? I'll let you fill in the blank.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Shush. Adults are talking.