S939 X2 4800+ - what is it still useful for?

[StrangerGuy]

That analogy isn't so hot. This rig is definately more than a Pinto. Perhaps a Fiero? I mean, it's no corvette, but the price will reflect that as well.

Just think of it as a person who wanna go PC gaming, but ended up buying a Dell system with crap integrated graphics but without PCIE slot, just because was cheap.

And then complaining about Dell scamming him.

 

[edplayer]

Buyer beware applies to all purchases. I can advertise a pinto as a sports car, doesn't mean i'm a scammer if someone is dumb enough to buy it as such.

That is what I tell myself when I rob old people of their life savings. :awe:


I mean, I feel slightly bad doing it. But it goes away quickly when I count the money! :thumbsup:

 

[v8envy]

That analogy isn't so hot. This rig is definately more than a Pinto. Perhaps a Fiero? I mean, it's no corvette, but the price will reflect that as well.

It wasn't a Pinto in its day (2006), but in 2010 just about any machine built with new components will run circles around it. The X1950 is a DX9 card, for starters. Definitely no Fiero. Here is a parts list for a more powerful machine which will handle games released in 2007, 2008 and 2009, use less power and last longer on a budget of $500:

4670 or GT240 or 9800GT (up to $70).
Celeron E3200 ($52 on the egg) up to core2 E5200 ($64, same)
Budget overclocking G41 chipset board. P45 would be nicer, but you can't get a decent one for under $60
Any on-sale DDR2 or DDR3 RAM, 2G, $50
Antec Sonata case with EA380 PSU, $100
HDD, optical $100

Substitute any modern AMD dual core cpu and overclocking capable motherboard if that works out to be cheaper.

While this will run closer to $450 than $430 by the time the dust settles it will be new, warrantied parts as opposed to hardware soon to celebrate its 4th birthday. And the new box will play games made after 2006 just fine, which is not something you can guarantee with an X1950Xt (an unsupported card for Linux, btw. Unsure re: win7).

Many of the big box store $500 and under desktops can be found with a 3D card and will also do better for modern gaming. And will come with an OS.

So, yeah, Pinto. Definitely a buyer beware situation in progress.

 

[HannibalX]

I still have and use on a daily basis (for work) my Opteron based S939 workstation I built in January of 2007 (with minor upgrades in the video department). Outside of a very, very few tasks (which are IT related) I can accomplish everything I need to work wise and entertainment wise with this machine. For my use there is absolutely no benefit to building a new machine or even upgrading this one.

Specs:
AMD Opteron 185 2.6 GHz @ 3.0 GHz.
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard (nForce 4)
2 x nVidia 9800 GTX+ 1GB
4 x Patriot DDR400 1GB Cas 2
2 x WD Raptor 10k 74GB
2 x Sony DVD Burner (forget model, from 2007).

My only gripe is that I'm limited (by the motherboard) to 4GB of memory and this will ultimately make me upgrade as I would love to have 8GB. I use this machine for everything from gaming (BF2, CoD4 & 5, CSS, L4D 1 & 2, Company of Heroes, and many others) to watching HD video, lots and lots of IT testing with multiple VMs, lots and lots of IT management stuff, video encoding, etc, etc.

Right now I'm running Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and this machine is fast, and for desktop related tasks it's just as fast as newer quad-core machines I've used. Do I care that a new i7 machine will burn a DVD in 4 minutes and my machine will do it in 8 minutes? No.

 

[v8envy]

Replace your DX10-faster-than-4890 graphics in that box with a X1950Pro, remove half your ram and downclock 20% and see if you're still happy with that as a gaming machine.

My wife is still happy with an E2180 with a 7600GT for her desktop and youtube needs as well. It's not perceptibly slower than my i7 for opening a web browser. While she doesn't need an upgrade I did't think of selling it on CL for $500 as a "gaming" machine until today.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I still have and use on a daily basis (for work) my Opteron based S939 workstation I built in January of 2007 (with minor upgrades in the video department). Outside of a very, very few tasks (which are IT related) I can accomplish everything I need to work wise and entertainment wise with this machine. For my use there is absolutely no benefit to building a new machine or even upgrading this one.

Specs:
AMD Opteron 185 2.6 GHz @ 3.0 GHz.
Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe motherboard (nForce 4)
2 x nVidia 9800 GTX+ 1GB
4 x Patriot DDR400 1GB Cas 2
2 x WD Raptor 10k 74GB
2 x Sony DVD Burner (forget model, from 2007).

My only gripe is that I'm limited (by the motherboard) to 4GB of memory and this will ultimately make me upgrade as I would love to have 8GB. I use this machine for everything from gaming (BF2, CoD4 & 5, CSS, L4D 1 & 2, Company of Heroes, and many others) to watching HD video, lots and lots of IT testing with multiple VMs, lots and lots of IT management stuff, video encoding, etc, etc.

Right now I'm running Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and this machine is fast, and for desktop related tasks it's just as fast as newer quad-core machines I've used. Do I care that a new i7 machine will burn a DVD in 4 minutes and my machine will do it in 8 minutes? No.

If you had an old CPU like the OP's that has an enormous resale value which sold can buy you a much faster new CPU + mobo + RAM...Keeping it because it's "still fast" is dumb IMO.

 

[HannibalX]

My machine originally had an X1950 Pro 256MB card, 2GB of ram and a 7k HD. To be honest I was perfectly content with the abilities of the machine in this form. I gamed at 1680x1050 and could max out games like Counter-Strike Source, Half-Life 2, Battlefield 2, etc.

I upgraded to 4GB, the dual 10k Raptors and dual 8800 GTXs. The GTXs didn't stick around very long because the noise and heat really bothered me for every day use but the performance was great, obviously.

After six months or so I switched back to the X1950 Pro but kept the extra ram and Raptor HDs. For a time I even clocked the CPU down to 1.6GHz to cut down on noise & heat because I had about a year where I didn't game at all.

Like always, the game bug bit me again. I bought a new case built for better air flow, a new PSU, CPU cooler and the 9800s. I overclocked the CPU and with the new video cards I am able to basically play any game I want, maxed out or close to it at 1680x1050.

I'm a happy campy either way though.

 

[HannibalX]

If you had an old CPU like the OP's that has an enormous resale value which sold can buy you a much faster new CPU + mobo + RAM...Keeping it because it's "still fast" is dumb IMO.

I do have an old CPU like the OP's that has a silly value, you see Opterons on eBay go for $300+. The OP's question was what use is there for it, and my post outlined that IMO there are LOTS of uses, basically anything you do on a newer machine you can also do on the S939 system. If he wants to sell or keep it that's his business, not yours or mine.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Many of the big box store $500 and under desktops can be found with a 3D card and will also do better for modern gaming. And will come with an OS.

You're kidding, right? Show me ONE prebuilt system with a real gaming card for $500 or under. I've never seen one.

I've seen systems listed for $600 on CL, that includes an AMD dual-core, 2GB of RAM, and something like an 8600GT. Which, IIRC, is slower than an X1950.

I really don't see the problem, in selling something like this for a reasonable price. It does indeed play games. It's not a Core i7, but those systems are $1000+.

And it's not like the video card isn't removable. I might just throw in an X1300 instead, and let the end-user drop in a video card of their choice.

Edit: The cheapest PC sold at BestBuy that has a discrete video card is this one:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Gateway...ssor/9361022.p?id=1218091194541&skuId=9361022
ATI Radeon HD 4650 graphics
$669.99

 

[VirtualLarry]

My wife is still happy with an E2180 with a 7600GT for her desktop and youtube needs as well. It's not perceptibly slower than my i7 for opening a web browser. While she doesn't need an upgrade I did't think of selling it on CL for $500 as a "gaming" machine until today.

See, you learn something new every day!

But seriously, one of my relatives was using a Dell with a Pentium D dual-core 2.8Ghz, and a 7600GT, for "hardcore gaming". Including Dragon Age Origins.

I upgraded them for Christmas with a newer Dell Vostro 200, with an E4500 2.2Ghz, and an 8800GTS 640 OC video card. It was a noticable step up.

 

[v8envy]

I've seen systems listed for $600 on CL, that includes an AMD dual-core, 2GB of RAM, and something like an 8600GT. Which, IIRC, is slower than an X1950.

8600GT should be faster than the X1950Pro or GT in most instances, but more importantly it supports the DX10 feature set. It's also supported by NV on Linux, making it suitable for a multimedia / standard def HTPC. It's still a useful card in 2010 (but barely), whereas even a faster X1950XT is an ancient, long forgotten relic.

I'm not 100% positive, but IIRC the 790GX onboard should be comprable in performance in modern, shader-heavy titles while supporting a better feature set.

And it's not like the video card isn't removable. I might just throw in an X1300 instead, and let the end-user drop in a video card of their choice.

That was the majority of the issue people took with this. Selling that as a "gaming" system in 2010. It's an eminently usable basic desktop even today, and with an addition of a modern graphics card might even suffice for low end, low res gaming.

As far as $500 big box machines -- I'm not going to grub around, but I've seen several sub-$400 deals recently. Add in a $45 4670 and it's a gaming box, even if you can't find one with a 3d card stock. (210/220 are OEM cards seeing heavy use IIRC).

 

[VirtualLarry]

8600GT should be faster than the X1950Pro or GT in most instances, but more importantly it supports the DX10 feature set. It's also supported by NV on Linux, making it suitable for a multimedia / standard def HTPC. It's still a useful card in 2010 (but barely), whereas even a faster X1950XT is an ancient, long forgotten relic.

DX10 and Linux matter not a whit to 99.99% of the population out there. Everyone is still gaming on XP and using DX9. There isn't a game title on the market, AFAIK, that isn't still compatible with DX9. Some games have some DX10/11 enhancements, but generally, there's not that much visual difference, but they run slower than in DX9 mode.

 

[VirtualLarry]

8600GT should be faster than the X1950Pro or GT in most instances

X1950XT is faster than 8600GT SLI!

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...2008/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1680x1050,798.html

Edit: A little further down the chart, X1950GT still blows away a single 8600GT.

 

[veri745]

X1950XT is faster than 8600GT SLI!

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...2008/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1680x1050,798.html

Edit: A little further down the chart, X1950GT still blows away a single 8600GT.

There's something odd about that chart; how does the 4870 beat 2 4870's in CF overall?

 

[Tsavo]

There's something odd about that chart; how does the 4870 beat 2 4870's in CF overall?

It's Tom's hardware after all.

 

[v8envy]

X1950XT is faster than 8600GT SLI!

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...2008/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1680x1050,798.html

Edit: A little further down the chart, X1950GT still blows away a single 8600GT.

I have no idea what that benchmark is, but it shows the 8800GT 512 (presumably stock clocked) at 82% of a 4870. I can tell you for a FACT that an 18% overclock on a 8800GT 512 will not perform anything like a 4870, nor will an 18% underclock on a 4870 make it perform like an 8800GT. The actual gulf in performance between the two in games which need performance (e.g, Stalker:CS) is closer to 50%.

I bring this up because the reverse is true of the 8600GT and 1950GT on that chart. The 8600 has an 18% benchmark deficit in that chart. Yet the 1950GT was the equal to a 2600XT (but without DX10), and the 2600XT performed on par with an 8600GT most of the time. You can find reviews of those two pitted against each other easily enough since those two were the same "generation." The 2600 beat the 8600 with anti-aliasing disabled, lost with it enabled.

I believe what's happening here is what happened with the X800 series vs the GT6800 -- the nvidia cards were running a different code path simply because the other cards didn't have the ability to run SM3.0. So the previous "generation" product beat the snot out of the "new" generation in sloppy benchmarks, but in gaming of that and following years it was a completely different picture. I'm thinking Tom's benchmarks may be comparing apples to lawnmowers.

A moot discussion, since neither card is a "gaming" card in 2010. And were barely midrange cards in 2006. But the X1950GT is even less of a solution today than the 8600GT, features wise.

 

[spdfreak]

Buyer beware applies to all purchases. I can advertise a pinto as a sports car, doesn't mean i'm a scammer if someone is dumb enough to buy it as such.

Yeah, but there is such a thing as false advertising... This is definitely not a gaming rig by any current standards. Maybe if he advertises it as a 2006 gaming rig, or gaming rig from the last decade

 

[v8envy]

DX10 and Linux matter not a whit to 99.99% of the population out there. Everyone is still gaming on XP and using DX9. There isn't a game title on the market, AFAIK, that isn't still compatible with DX9. Some games have some DX10/11 enhancements, but generally, there's not that much visual difference, but they run slower than in DX9 mode.

Where are you getting this? The Steam survey? Then sure, for half-life2 engine games (released in 2004, runs well on a 9600) your machine is definitely a gaming rig. It's fine for any game released prior to Oblivion and many of those released after.

Feel free to tell your customer they don't need more, and then ignore their questions as to why their fixed function hardware won't let them enable FSAA together with HDR, or why they can't find a decent 64 bit driver for win7, why GTA4/ArmA2/Stalker:CS and countless other games will not let them enable most of the eye candy or play at LCD resolutions better than in slideshow presentation mode. Or why WoW goes from FPS to SPF in crowded situations.

It was a lower mainstream gaming box in 2006. I have no trouble believing suckers will buy a 8600 or 1950GT powered box with a slower than entry level (in 2008) processor for $600 if it's advertised as a game capable machine. That kind of user is not going to know any better, and you could probably get away with a single core celeron + GMA build for a larger profit margin. After all, the difference between 3 fps and 10 FPS, while huge percentage wise, is not going to matter much in the real world.

 

[Gillbot]

Yeah, but there is such a thing as false advertising... This is definitely not a gaming rig by any current standards. Maybe if he advertises it as a 2006 gaming rig, or gaming rig from the last decade

IMHO, total BS. It is still a gaming rig by definition. I mean, PONG is still a game system. Are you telling me you can't sell PONG as a "game system" any more because YOU believe it's out of date?

 

[v8envy]

IMHO, total BS. It is still a gaming rig by definition. I mean, PONG is still a game system. Are you telling me you can't sell PONG as a "game system" any more because YOU believe it's out of date?

By that definition every personal computer ever made is *STILL* a gaming rig. Games have been around as long as PCs. I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of game-like diagnostic ran on the ENIAC. That said, good luck with your computer gaming hobby on a Timex Sinclair.

There is implied meaning attached to words. When someone says "PC gaming rig", they are implying a powerful GPU capable of handling all of today's games and their associated technologies including FSAA and HDR at a modern resolution. I have no issue with "early 2006 mainstream gaming capable system" description for the above. I do have an issue with it being advertised as a gaming rig, because it's no more of one TODAY than a new, lowest end AMD build with integrated graphics. If someone comes in looking for a PS3 (even if they don't know they'll want to play Fallout 3 specifically) and you sell them a Playstation1 for $300, yeah, they still walked out with a gaming system. And everyone would agree they got utterly ripped off. Nothing wrong with that from the viewpoint of if you don't do it someone else will, either. But let's not go around redefining terms.

BTW, VirtualLarry, I just did an excercise on the ibuypower site. Custom configuration, lowest end AMD dual core athlon, removed all options. Added a 9800GT card. Total: $453 shipped, and it looks to include an OS license and warranty. I'd grudgingly accept that as a low res, low end, extreme budget "gaming" machine. But not a 4800x2 + 1950GT.

 

[Ayah]

It'd make a very awesome router for the next 5+ years or so.

 

[spdfreak]

IMHO, total BS. It is still a gaming rig by definition. I mean, PONG is still a game system. Are you telling me you can't sell PONG as a "game system" any more because YOU believe it's out of date?

Well, you can make up your own definition I suppose, but by current standards, it is not a gaming rig unless you really believe that the ability to play pong defines gaming in 2010. But, judging from the rig in your sig, that is not what you believe.

 

[VirtualLarry]

BTW, VirtualLarry, I just did an excercise on the ibuypower site. Custom configuration, lowest end AMD dual core athlon, removed all options. Added a 9800GT card. Total: $453 shipped, and it looks to include an OS license and warranty. I'd grudgingly accept that as a low res, low end, extreme budget "gaming" machine. But not a 4800x2 + 1950GT.

Let's simplify this discussion a bit.

Is the problem with calling this rig a "gaming rig", with the CPU (X2 4800), with the RAM (2GB), or with the included video card (would have been the X1950GT, except the 500W PSU I was going to put in has a 24-pin ATX connector, and the mobo uses a 20-pin).
So the actual build has an X1300 in, as a placeholder card, which I explained in my craigslist ad (Boston, search for "Hudson").

As far as I can see, except for the handful of games that really require a quad-core to play decently, every other game on the market will run, CPU-wise, on this rig (perhaps with a touch of overclocking, say 2.4 to 2.6). So I'm guessing the problem is with the video card. But if I sell it cheaper, and allow the end-user to drop in a "gaming card" (according to their definition), then where's the harm?

Edit: I should add, I sold an overclocked Opteron 165-based AMD rig with 2GB of RAM and a 9600GSO to someone for nearly $600 as a gaming rig six to eight months ago. I've had no complaints about it. Put Win7 RC1 64-bit on it, and it was clearly stated in the ad that the OS expires in Mar 2010.

Edit: I went to the ibuypower site and configured an Athlon II X2 240, 2GB DDR2-800, DVD burner, stock case, stock PSU, 9800GT 512MB, for $446 without shipping. Notably, this is also without an OS, Vista home basic is $86 more, and OS prices just go up from there.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

If people seriously buy these chips for ~$200 on ebay, then it's a no-brainer.

 

[v8envy]

Just did it again, got $448 (had to remove their speakers and flashcard reader). Weird, but I did confirm there is no free shipping (any longer?), and you were right re: no OS.

My search fu is weak, but here's an alternative: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...7&Sku=H24-1104 $439 for an E5300, 3 gigs of DDR2 RAM, misc stuff, Win7 OS license, 300 watt OEM PSU. Enough price wiggle room for a 4670. And I'm sure the standard Bing CB applies to this or the compusa storefront to cover shipping. There was a 2.9 ghz Athlon II version with lower specs for $10 more.

Also, you have to admit, an OCd opty with a 9600GSO is worlds better than the machine in your OP for gaming. Doubly so 6-8 months ago.

I don't begrudge you trying to make a buck from your efforts of recycling/salvaging a PC. The issue was with calling it a gaming machine. When someone asked for video card recommendations in 2007, 2008, 2009 and now in 2010 nobody would tell them to get an 8600GT, let alone 1950GT.