Sactoking's ACA Q&A Thread

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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
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For anyone interested in seeing decision-making on the ACA in action, our Exchange will be broadcasting two committee meetings via the link in the OP on Tuesday, July 10 at 9:30am and 11:30am Pacific .
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
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If you work for exempted company and buy a subsidized silver plan for your family. Lets say the subsidy was 5000 dollars. Since your company was exempted from the mandate are they still billed for this subsidy.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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If you work for exempted company and buy a subsidized silver plan for your family. Lets say the subsidy was 5000 dollars. Since your company was exempted from the mandate are they still billed for this subsidy.

The subsidy is only charged back to the employer when the employer is required to provide adequate and affordable coverage and fails to do so. If the employer is exempt from the requirement, say by having fewer than 50 employees, then they are not charged for the federal subsidy costs.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
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How does the ACA effect those of us with health savings accounts and/or high deductible plans?
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
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How does the ACA effect those of us with health savings accounts and/or high deductible plans?

That question is a little too broad to answer but a couple specific things to keep in mind:
Effective Jan 1, 2011 OTC medications require a prescription to be eligible for your HSA; and
Effective Jan 1, 2011 any non-eligible HSA expenditures will be penalized at 20%.

Edited: The HDHP out-of-pocket maximum will be set by law to the HSA contribution limit, so there will be no "doughnut hole" in coverage.

Also, the reduction in pre-tax contribution limits to $2,500 applies to medical FSAs, not HSAs.
 
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Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
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Shouldn't this thread be in out of topic... like the tax thread you are trying to emulate?

While I think that insurance is highly political today, it's also law, and if you want to just answer questions, go to off topic forum.

-John
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
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Is their any estimates to what a gold, silver, or bronze insurance will look like?

Also is their any estimate to how much these subsidies will cost the federal government. Where is the funds to pay for these subsidies from, assuming your employer is exempt or has a waiver.

I am also very disappointed to learn undocumented immigrants will not qualify for these subsidies. Are any states planning to give undocumented immigrants the subsidies out if their own pocket. It is nice that California will a at least give them Medicaid, which I think would include most of them.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Is their any estimates to what a gold, silver, or bronze insurance will look like?

The metal levels will vary by state and will partially be based on the Essential Health Benefits your state chooses as well as the three most popular currently offered in the state (as determined by CCIIO).

Also is their any estimate to how much these subsidies will cost the federal government.

Nothing at this point that isn't fairly partisan.

Where is the funds to pay for these subsidies from, assuming your employer is exempt or has a waiver.

In theory, from people who pay the individual penalty, from medicare cost savings, from newly-enacted prescription drug and health insurance taxes, and from "Cadillac" plan taxes and other high-income tax increases.

I am also very disappointed to learn undocumented immigrants will not qualify for these subsidies. Are any states planning to give undocumented immigrants the subsidies out if their own pocket. It is nice that California will a at least give them Medicaid, which I think would include most of them.

On the flip side "undocumented immigrants" will also not be subject to the individual mandate.

I don't know of any state planning on footing the subsidy out of their own pocket. Given the budget problems of most states I doubt any state could afford it.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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The metal levels will vary by state and will partially be based on the Essential Health Benefits your state chooses as well as the three most popular currently offered in the state (as determined by CCIIO).

Interesting. What will happen if you need to be covered in an out of state area? Are the hospitals obligated to cover the cost at the rate determined under the metal plan of your state of residence or will there be 'out of state' charges similar to the 'out of network' charges now. If so, are those defined/limited by the ACA or will that likely vary by state as well?

Btw - big thanks for doing this:thumbsup:
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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On the flip side "undocumented immigrants" will also not be subject to the individual mandate.

I don't know of any state planning on footing the subsidy out of their own pocket. Given the budget problems of most states I doubt any state could afford it.


The enforcement of the undocumented will be the problem that could not be addressed; so was ignored.
US Citizens and legals have to file tax returns and therefore can be tracked.
Illegals can avoid filing taxes so the tracking becomes another complex system that has no penalty and lack of enforcement will (another subject there :hmm:
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Interesting. What will happen if you need to be covered in an out of state area? Are the hospitals obligated to cover the cost at the rate determined under the metal plan of your state of residence or will there be 'out of state' charges similar to the 'out of network' charges now. If so, are those defined/limited by the ACA or will that likely vary by state as well?

Btw - big thanks for doing this:thumbsup:

I'll have to double-check but I'm fairly certain that the policy will cover like the in-network/out-of-network determinations now. At the heart of it the insurance remains very similar to what it is now.

Remember that if you're traveling and no network providers are available you're supposed to be able to go out of network and have your provider cover it as if it were in-network. The out-of-network surcharge is only supposed to apply when you voluntarily go out of network.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
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Remember that if you're traveling and no network providers are available you're supposed to be able to go out of network and have your provider cover it as if it were in-network. The out-of-network surcharge is only supposed to apply when you voluntarily go out of network.

Thanks - I didn't know if that would carry over or not now that entire states could be 'out of network'
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Thanks - I didn't know if that would carry over or not now that entire states could be 'out of network'

Don't let the state exchange fool you, not much will change in terms of network availability. It's quite possible that an insurer will offer the same plan on multiple state exchanges, either exact matches or practical matches. And as it currently stands a particular product may be available in one state and not another already.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Do people earning below the poverty level have to purchase insurance or pay a tax penalty?
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
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If you are under 133% of the poverty level and your state won't participate in the new Medicaid rules, best to get the hell of of that state and moved to a civilized one that will.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
2,759
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Do people earning below the poverty level have to purchase insurance or pay a tax penalty?

Yes and no. Beginning 1/1/2014 all American citizens and legal residents will be subject to the "individual responsibility" (mandate) provisions of the ACA. If someone at or below the FPL does not have insurance they will be subject to the tax/penalty.

As with everything, there are some major caveats.

Medicaid, the joint federal-state healthcare plan for certain low-income and at-risk population groups, will count toward fulfilling the mandate. Currently Medicaid eligibility is a state-determined factor. If your state opts out of the Medicaid expansion provision of the ACA then it will retain its eligibility criteria. If your state opts in to the Medicaid expansion then it will be required to cover anyone with an income at or below 133% of the FPL. Medicaid coverage is free to the recipient so there is no practical reason why someone who is eligible would violate the mandate.

If someone somehow was able to earn less than the FPL, not be eligible for Medicaid, not be eligible for Medicare Part A, and not be eligible for insurance through an employer or family member, then they could be exempt from the mandate if the least-expensive plan on the individual exchange cost more than 8% of their MAGI after the federal subsidy is applied.

So, yes, they are subject to the mandate but there is probably not a plausible scenario where they cannot fulfill the mandate except by choice.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Your state has to allow Navigators, that's a federal requirement of the ACA. Navigators are supposed to be the "community outreach" people who can reach groups traditionally underserved by the agent/broker model.

That being said, states have a lot of leeway in how they set up their individual Navigator programs. I know our state has had requests from hospitals to allow them to have Navigators on staff for that very situation, but the licensure, education, continuing education, and accountability (fines, censure, E&O coverage, etc.) are all things that have yet to be determined.

It would not surprise me if some states think that having Navigators in hospitals is a wonderful idea and other states think that it will be a huge conflict of interest.

Update: The Navigator issue has officially gotten more confusing. States must allow Navigators. CCIIO has promulgated a list of eight groups which constitute primary eligibility groups to be Navigators (such as hospitals, unions, community groups, etc). Of these eight primary groups at least two must be Navigators. Of those two at least one group must be "agents/brokers". In other words, licensed insurance agents/brokers are required to be Navigators and at least one other group from a list of seven must be eligible to be Navigators.

The problem arises from another rule of the ACA which states that Navigators cannot receive money from any insurance company, presumably as a result of the transaction. For agents/brokers this means that they cannot receive a commission for signing up someone on an exchange. For hospitals this presents a different problem. If someone is uninsured and the hospital assists in signing them up for insurance in an exchange (that's what Navigators do) then they are barred from "receiving money" from an insurer as a result of the transaction. Well, as a result of the transaction someone who was once uninsured is now insured and the insurer is obligated to pay claims to the healthcare provider. It has been discussed that interpreting the ACA language on its face (meaning not using a strict interpretation) leads to the conclusion that if a hospital is a Navigator and signs up someone on an exchange plan the hospital will be barred from collecting the medical expenses for that person for an as-yet-undetermined amount of time. Since the rule in question is actual ACA language and not a CCIIO interpretation it cannot be easily changed. This is an important issue because the first time a hospital acts as Navigator for someone being treated at that same hospital it will likely cause a denial of coverage and/or lawsuit from the insurer.

Edited: I was wrong; agents/brokers are not the mandated primary navigator group. In fact, agents/brokers are barred from being Navigators and must file special paperwork to be authorized to sell Exchange products. The mandated primary Navigator group is "community nonprofit organizations" and the other seven potential primary Navigator groups remain the same.
 
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sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Is their any estimates to what a gold, silver, or bronze insurance will look like?

Revised answer: Metal plans must cover a specific actuarial value of services.

Bronze plans must cover 60%
Silver plans must cover 70%
Gold plans must cover 80%
Platinum plans must cover 90%

This does not mean that the coinsurance will equal these amounts; it means that over the large population of plan holders the insurance plan must cover this percentage of cost, including deductible, coinsurance, copayments, and mandated preventive care costs.

As a side note, an insurer who wishes to participate on the individual exchange must offer a Silver and Gold plan; Bronze and Platinum are optional. With Platinum plans being optional and the minimum actuarial value of services being 90% we expect there to be no Platinum plans offered. The premiums will be so prohibitively expensive that the only people who will find them economical are the ones with exorbitant medical costs. Adverse selection would dictate that either no Platinum plans will or the market will quickly evaporate as the losses become untenable.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
If you are under 133% of the poverty level and your state won't participate in the new Medicaid rules, best to get the hell of of that state and moved to a civilized one that will.

That assumes that you CAN uproot yourself and any family you may have. For a lot of people, it simply isnt an option. This is one of my lamentations about the ACA ruling not resting on the commerce clause. It took the teeth out of the medicareaid expansion. Many working poor will be left out.

So far, I've seen that Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, and a few other states have publicly stated that they would opt out entirely, or at least wait until after November to attempt ANY action with regards to ACA compliance or the medicareaid expansion.

Does anyone have a more concise list of what states' stated courses of action might be with regard to exchange setup and the medicareaid expansion under the ACA?
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
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That assumes that you CAN uproot yourself and any family you may have. For a lot of people, it simply isnt an option. This is one of my lamentations about the ACA ruling not resting on the commerce clause. It took the teeth out of the medicare expansion. Many working poor will be left out.

So far, I've seen that Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, and a few other states have publicly stated that they would opt out entirely, or at least wait until after November to attempt ANY action with regards to ACA compliance or the medicare expansion.

Does anyone have a more concise list of what states' stated courses of action might be with regard to exchange setup and the medicare expansion under the ACA?

Actually even if the mandate was found constitutional under the commerce clause, the Medicare Expansion mandate for states was still found to be in violation of the 9th and 10th Amendment, by 7 of Justices. Even 2 who supported the commerce clause argument said the Medicare Expansion requirement was unconstitutional.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
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That assumes that you CAN uproot yourself and any family you may have. For a lot of people, it simply isnt an option. This is one of my lamentations about the ACA ruling not resting on the commerce clause. It took the teeth out of the medicare expansion. Many working poor will be left out.

So far, I've seen that Texas, Florida, Wisconsin, and a few other states have publicly stated that they would opt out entirely, or at least wait until after November to attempt ANY action with regards to ACA compliance or the medicare expansion.

Does anyone have a more concise list of what states' stated courses of action might be with regard to exchange setup and the medicare expansion under the ACA?

Just a point, it's Medicaid, not Medicare. An important difference exists.

I haven't a list yet because, in my opinion, until someone actually does something to opt out of the Medicaid expansion or exchanges it's just a bunch of bloviating.

Concerning the Medicaid expansion, a state may opt in to the expansion, at which point the state voluntarily amends its Medicaid eligibility criteria (Medicaid eligibility is determined by states and not the fed) to 133% of the FPL (138% in practice since Medicaid ignores the first 5% of income). If it does so then the fed will pick up 100% of the cost of the new enrollees for the first 3 years. After that the fed pays for ~90% of costs for 4 or 5 years. After that no promises have been made, but most states expect funding to settle around 50-50 (it's currently 41-59 for existing Medicaid eligibles).

For states that are considering opting out, there are several considerations:
1) The long-term costs will run into the hundreds of millions to billions once 2020 rolls around and the funding promises evaporate;
2) If a state opts in the fed only picks up the extra cost for medical care. All of the ancillary administrative costs of the expansion (IT resources, SHIP/CHIP caseworkers, etc) will be split 50-50, meaning that the expansion is not free even in the short-term; and
3) Even if a state opts out Medicaid rolls are expected to increase due to the mandate. If someone is eligible for Medicaid today their costs will only be paid 50% by the fed regardless of expansion since technically they are not a "new" Medicaid eligible person.

Concerning the exchanges, a state really has 4 options, only three of which are viable:
1) Create their own exchange. This is appealing because it allows states to control almost everything but is unappealing because the long-term cost must be borne by the state and the feds haven't been timely in issuing advice or regulations. The ACA was extremely vague in many respects, intentionally, with the understanding that CCIIO and HHS would fill in the gaps later. Well... they're not filling in the gaps very quickly so implementation is next to impossible.
2) Create a FFE (Federally Facilitated Exchange). The feds come in and basically set up the exchange infrastructure but the states get to retain certain critical roles such as consumer protection. Most states considering not setting up an exchange should go this route.
3) Punt. Do nothing. The federal government will set up an exchange, likely a national one, and you get stuck with the results. The advantages are that you can (maybe) avoid some costs and have the political feather or thumbing your nose at the ACA but pretty much everything else is a disadvantage. You don't keep any oversight, you lose your ability to regulate your market, you have to start from scratch if you ever decide to take the exchange back, your citizens are hurt quite a bit by federal incompetence, etc.

The fourth option is for two or more states to team up to create a "regional" exchange, but pretty much nobody expects that to happen since it has drawbacks similar to #1 and #3 without many of the advantages.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,001
113
106
Thanks for the info, sactoking. It will be interesting to see just how this plays out in the coming months.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Just a point, it's Medicaid, not Medicare. An important difference exists.

I haven't a list yet because, in my opinion, until someone actually does something to opt out of the Medicaid expansion or exchanges it's just a bunch of bloviating.

Concerning the Medicaid expansion, a state may opt in to the expansion, at which point the state voluntarily amends its Medicaid eligibility criteria (Medicaid eligibility is determined by states and not the fed) to 133% of the FPL (138% in practice since Medicaid ignores the first 5% of income). If it does so then the fed will pick up 100% of the cost of the new enrollees for the first 3 years. After that the fed pays for ~90% of costs for 4 or 5 years. After that no promises have been made, but most states expect funding to settle around 50-50 (it's currently 41-59 for existing Medicaid eligibles).

For states that are considering opting out, there are several considerations:
1) The long-term costs will run into the hundreds of millions to billions once 2020 rolls around and the funding promises evaporate;
2) If a state opts in the fed only picks up the extra cost for medical care. All of the ancillary administrative costs of the expansion (IT resources, SHIP/CHIP caseworkers, etc) will be split 50-50, meaning that the expansion is not free even in the short-term; and
3) Even if a state opts out Medicaid rolls are expected to increase due to the mandate. If someone is eligible for Medicaid today their costs will only be paid 50% by the fed regardless of expansion since technically they are not a "new" Medicaid eligible person.

Concerning the exchanges, a state really has 4 options, only three of which are viable:
1) Create their own exchange. This is appealing because it allows states to control almost everything but is unappealing because the long-term cost must be borne by the state and the feds haven't been timely in issuing advice or regulations. The ACA was extremely vague in many respects, intentionally, with the understanding that CCIIO and HHS would fill in the gaps later. Well... they're not filling in the gaps very quickly so implementation is next to impossible.
2) Create a FFE (Federally Facilitated Exchange). The feds come in and basically set up the exchange infrastructure but the states get to retain certain critical roles such as consumer protection. Most states considering not setting up an exchange should go this route.
3) Punt. Do nothing. The federal government will set up an exchange, likely a national one, and you get stuck with the results. The advantages are that you can (maybe) avoid some costs and have the political feather or thumbing your nose at the ACA but pretty much everything else is a disadvantage. You don't keep any oversight, you lose your ability to regulate your market, you have to start from scratch if you ever decide to take the exchange back, your citizens are hurt quite a bit by federal incompetence, etc.

The fourth option is for two or more states to team up to create a "regional" exchange, but pretty much nobody expects that to happen since it has drawbacks similar to #1 and #3 without many of the advantages.

Do you know what states out of California expands Medicaid to undocumented immigrants, just wondering if California is the only one?
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,547
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Do you know what states out of California expands Medicaid to undocumented immigrants, just wondering if California is the only one?

I don't know, but the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 mandated that anyone receiving Medicaid be a US citizen or legal immigrant and show documentation to prove as such. If California is voluntarily and knowingly providing Medicaid services to undocumented immigrants, or to immigrants that cannot meet the documentation requirements of the DRA, then they are doing so out of their own pockets as no federal matching funds are available for those purposes.
 
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