Safe at 1.8Volts??

slimbim

Senior member
Apr 30, 2000
219
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0
I have MSI 645 ULTRA and P4 1.6A Ghz.
I can't get into windows2000 at 150Mhz FSB unless i have my voltage set at 1.8V. 133Mhz is fine at 1.67V.

is it safe to run it at that high of a voltage?

I just want to keep it at 133Mhz. You think If I leave the voltage at 1.67V and at 133Mhz FSB that I can use the stock fan/heatsink and be safe?
Cause this noise from the Thermaltake Dragon 478 is killing me.

I can't really compare temperatures and decide cause the temperature sensor on MSI 645 ULTRA is broken. otherwise it is a great board.

Thanks.
Slim.
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
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1.8 is fine, but not with the stock cooler. The stock cooler is a nice piece of equipment, but the slow 3000rpm fan can't keep up with higher temps. 1.8 will most likely result in the low 60C range under full prime95 load. From my experience, you need to keep it at 60 or below for stability. I ran at 1.83 volts at 2.8, but it got too hot for my liking (62C). Get yourself an Alpha or Swiftech or put the Dragon back on and find a way to monitor your temps.

LJ
 

slimbim

Senior member
Apr 30, 2000
219
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0
But what if I lower the voltage to somewhere in 1.6's and just use stay at 133Mhz FSB??
Stock fan and heatsink, with artic silver 3 will be ok??
 

Poof

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2000
4,305
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Oh go ahead. My P3 600@972 has been running SETI 24/7 (plus I use it for UT) for over a year at 1.9V and believe me, the default for a P3 slot 1 is much lower than for a P4.

I have a GW HS/fan on it, case side open.
 

John

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
33,944
1
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<< But what if I lower the voltage to somewhere in 1.6's and just use stay at 133Mhz FSB??
Stock fan and heatsink, with artic silver 3 will be ok??
>>



I think that's a good idea.
 

THUGSROOK

Elite Member
Feb 3, 2001
11,847
0
0
slimbim-

there is a rumor that we shouldnt go over 1.7v.
most motherboards will alert you at over 1.7v too.
how many mhz are you really getting from the extra .1v anyways? is it worth it?
the most recent "thinking" is that the 0.13m might burn up faster because its so thin.
only time will tell tho

my advice:
set it to 1.7v and get the best you can out of it.
work more on faster memory & throughput.
get yourself a regular Thermaltake P4V hsf or a Sunflower.

 

slimbim

Senior member
Apr 30, 2000
219
0
0
Thanks guys for your input.

I am just going to stay at 133MHz, so the voltage will definitely be under 1.7V.

I just wanted to use the stock fan/heatsink, but with artic silver 3, just cause it is sooooo quiet that way.
I read a lot of posts of people reaching above 2GHz on just stock fan/heatsink.......so I figure it will be ok.......

Just wanted to make sure.

Thanks.
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
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The rule of thumb is the highest you can go with reasonable voltage. That said, me, I enjoy squeezing every bit out I can while staying within reasonable temps and vcore. Plenty of folks are running P4's at 1.8 volts. Use good judgement.

LJ
 

f13dfx

Member
Oct 12, 1999
190
0
0
I sort of have the same dilemna.

I was stable @2133mhz using 1.6v core w/Intel Retail Fan/Heatsink using AS3.

I then used the wire trick to get more core voltage and my default is now at 1.7v (fluctuates between 1.75v to 1.79v in MBM5). I am able to run @2400 using 1.85v, but am not really totally stable.

So my dilemna is that now that I have the default sitting @1.7v, should I remove the vid wire mod, and go back to 1.6v or just use 1.7v for 2133mhz, bearing in mind that the actual voltage fluctuates all the way up to 1.79v sometimes, that's if you believe MBM5.

TIA
 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
LarryJoe, why do you think it is just a heat issue....It is much more then heat you should be worried about...

Read the articles on it...Too high of voltages can cause a term called electromigration and this will kill the chip...Quit telling ppl "if the temps are fine", cause you don't seem to understand the whole picture...
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
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0
Oh and you do??? The Northwood has been out for about a month, or at least available. Only time will tell. When you overclock, you take the chance in killing your cpu, simple as that. If you have real good cooling, and I don't, then I say go for it and I stand by it. I believe I said use good judgment. Notice, I am at 1.72-1.75 volts. "Electromigration" is not new to the Northwood, it applies to all chips bud.

We will see when Intel reaches the end of it's yeild on the Northwood and 3.3's are released with a default voltage of 1.7, just like tha cumine and every platform before.

Mind your business and I will mind mine. I stand by my advice. If you are willing to go to 1.85 volts, make sure you have superior cooling and you should be fine.

Jeesh.
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
0
0
f13dfx - if you can't get 2400 stable at 1.85 volts, I would not go any higher on the vcore and just go back to your Prime95 stable settings. As far as the wiring, no way, leave it be, you went to the trouble to do it and it is not hurting anything.

I wired the 4-3-2-1 pins and have vcore from 1.5-2.2 available to me. I will never have to wait or worry about a bios that will release these again. Unlocked forever.

LJ
 

KenAF

Senior member
Jan 6, 2002
684
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0


<< Read the articles on it...Too high of voltages can cause a term called electromigration and this will kill the chip...Quit telling ppl "if the temps are fine", cause you don't seem to understand the whole picture... >>

If I hear this one more time, I am going to go nuts. This all arose out of a single comment taken out context by Johan at Aceshardware.

Do you people even know what electromigration is? Electromigration is normal; if it weren't for electromigration, processors might last tens or hundreds of years. The danger of electromigration is that the processor will eventually require more voltage to remain at the same speed, and will need to be reduced to a slower speed at the given voltage to remain stable. Eventually, after a substantial period of time, it may stop working completely. However, this isn't something that could occur to a processor overnight, or even over a period of many months. Even at 1.85V on a P4 (assuming reasonable temps), it will probably take years.

Electromigration occurs just from running processors at 100% usage. It occurs when running processor intensive tasks. Some have suggested that electromigration occurs (on the Athlon, not just the P4) whenever the processor temperature exceeds 50C.

Primary electromigration risk occurs from increased temperatures; failure from electromigration increases exponentially with increased temperatures. That said, the copper interconnects in the P4 can carry ten times as much current as aluminum wire, and serves to allow substantially increased temperatures and electromigration without risk to the processor. That's part of the reason why Intel moved from aluminum to copper interconnects with the Northwood; so they could reach higher clocks, and tolerate more heat, while still preserving long-term (essentially indefinite) reliability.

What's a real world example of electromigration? Well, people who overclocked their Celeron 300A @ 581MHz have begun to find, after years and years, that their processor no longer runs stable at that speed. Some of those who ran their Celeron 300A @ 581MHz for several years now find that it only runs stable at 450MHz. That's due to electromigration. Actual processor failures due to electromigration are very very very rare, considering that very few people keep their processors for more than five years.

What is the worst danger one can realistically expect to face from electromigration with the "Northwood" P4? Well, if you don't have good cooling, you may find in three years that your P4 1.6A will no longer run stable at 2560MHz. Instead, you may have to clock it down to 2400MHz. Big deal. The chance of a P4 processor, with increased voltage and adequate cooling, completely failing in several years is about as close to 0% as you can get.
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
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0
Thank you KenAF. Amen. It is annoying when people read one article and then go around preaching it like the gospel.

Talk about not understanding the whole picture. Such an ironic statement in this case. Duvie the upside of your ignorant remarks is that you helped educate some folks. Link

Known:
Overclocking decreases the life of a CPU.

Unknown:
How much life does it take off?

Known:
Most people don't care because they have moved on to a different cpu by the time it takes it's toll.

Assumption:
5 years before you see any adverse effects.
 

f13dfx

Member
Oct 12, 1999
190
0
0
Larry Joe:

What is your Cold Boot Default Voltage with Pins 4, 3, 2 and 1 wired together?

TIA
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
0
0
I am not sure what you mean by cold boot, but I think you mean what is the default after wiring the pins. It is 1.85 volts, BUT, 1.5 to 1.825 are available, so after wiring the pins, you will boot at 1.85 volts and you then just go into the bios and turn it down if you want to. This is how it is on my TH7II. Hope this answered your question.
 

f13dfx

Member
Oct 12, 1999
190
0
0
Larry Joe:

That's exactly the info I needed! I'll have to give that a try.

BTW, did you ever just wire 4 and 3 together, and did it get you a default of 1.75v and a range to 1.85v?
I'm just comparing, cuz it shouldn't be different for any make of mobo.

Thanks!
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
0
0
Yes, first I wrapped the 3-4 only and default was 1.7, leaving me with 1.825 as a max. The trouble was that with the Abit TH7II, 1.825 really equals 1.75 per MBM. I wanted to see how high the chip could go so I took it back out and wired all 4.

My advice is to wrap all 4 if you are going to go through the trouble.
 

jiffylube1024

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
7,430
0
71


<< Oh go ahead. My P3 600@972 has been running SETI 24/7 (plus I use it for UT) for over a year at 1.9V and believe me, the default for a P3 slot 1 is much lower than for a P4.

I have a GW HS/fan on it, case side open.
>>



Hehe, nothing like taking the piss out of those old "theories" of frying your CPU running it at high voltages!
 

ZimZum

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2001
1,281
0
76
"Another thing about the PIV and voltage increases, upto about 1.7v the heat seems to gently rise, but once pushed past 1.8v, the cpu starts to get extremely hot very quickly. This maybe an effect of the .13micron process, or something else in the way the PIV is designed. The retail heatink can take upto 1.7v, with the cpu running at 2.7ghz, but this does give an underload temperature of around 60c. Unlike an Amd system, this is not a temperature to worry about, as the cpu has thermal protection built in to prevent it from overheating. The Intel design spec states that when the cpu reaches 135c it will shut down automatically, but in reality you will never see a temperature that high unless you run with no heat sink at all.

Something else to watch out for when pushing your cpu is the clock throttling feature. This makes the cpu step down the clock speed when it begins to overheat, so you may think your running at 2.6ghz, but the clock throttling has knocked it back to 2ghz. You can check this by running various benchmarks and comparing the results. Clock throttling can be disabled in the bios of some motherboards, but of course Intel do not recommend that you do this.

One other thing to note when overclocking the cpu, is that the 12v line on the PSU needs to be very good. Once you get over about 1.75v, the 12v line starts to drop below 11.5, which causes instability, so a PSU with adjustable pots, such as the Sparkle or Antec is recommended. It?s also worth noting that not every cpu will make it to 2.6ghz, this is just from personal experience. I have found that anything over 2.7ghz requires an extremely good PSU, and cooling, but so far I have managed to get the following result, although it is not stable at this speed"

From Hexus
 

CATASTROPHY

Senior member
Dec 26, 2001
731
0
0
OK, Ive got a question about the voltage. Im running a 1.6a on a p4b266 using Asus e-z plug. I am using an old Enlight 300W server PS.I can run fine @ 133fsb,1.5V but anything above 140 fsb I have to raise the voltage ALOT and is never completely stable.Might add that i can run @ 132fsb with the ram running agressive settings @176 bus so i know its not the ram.Anyway the question is when i go above 140fsb the voltage on the +12V drops to +10.74-10.88, and the -12V runs around -11.07-11.31. recorded by MBM. Are these voltage drops acceptable or do I need to get another PSU?
 

WarCon

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2001
3,920
0
0
Zimzum, I have found that is exactly what happens to me. I am going to get a new supply for that very reason.

What was the dead giveaway, I had my voltage up to 1.775 in my P4B266-C and was running Prime95 just fine at 155fsb. I pressed the tray button on my DVD and wham Prime95 errors. I start it back up and look at MBM and my 12v rail is at 11.31. I put it back to 150 and am going to wait to push it any further until I get a new supply. I don't want to inadvertently trash my install.

......................edit...................
No, those voltages are way too low. Get a new supply, your 12v rail is really suffering and I fear that your powersupply (as well as mine) will give up the ghost and maybe take your mobo and other equipment with it.
 
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