Saints caught running "bounty" program that awarded injuring players

[IndyColtsFan]

Serious? The only issue is that they were warned to stop and they didn't, just like NE. But just like NE, this has been going on for a long time by many teams, as well as college and high school. Other teams and coaches know it, it's just an issue now b/c a snitch decided to leak it to the public and everyone is OMG.

If people only knew half of what really goes in between coaches, GMs, players, etc in regards to showmanship and ways to gain an edge.

I'm not sure I get your point. Where did I say anything differently? Who said this stuff isn't happening elsewhere? The Saints just happened to be the first ones where an investigation led to an undeniable finding of guilt and people covering it up. That's the difference. No one (least of all me) denies that Goodell is using the Saints as an example.

Also, not only were they warned to stop and didn't, they explicitly LIED about it. Big difference.

The league is now under intense scrutiny regarding injuries, specifically, brain injuries. IIRC, several lawsuits have been filed against them. Goodell pretty much HAS TO take action when reports like this surface. Keep in mind, the Saints were being investigated BEFORE the alleged "snitch" came forward when the Vikings launched a formal complaint about an alleged bounty against Favre.

My understanding is that the snitch did NOT go public but rather, reported it to the NFL office after the initial investigation closed, forcing them to reopen it. It was then that the truth was revealed that Payton and company lied to cover it up.

Like I said, looking back, it was pretty obvious in the NE/NO game that Belichick knew about the bounty on TB or he wouldn't have pulled him so early in the game. If you remember, Buddy Ryan also used to have such a program but nobody cared back then.

If people want to cry, here's a google search on Buddy Ryan Bounty System - https://www.google.com/search?q=bud...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

From this link, include the Packers and Ravens. Oh noes!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...ty-system-probe-is-wellworn-territory-for-nfl

Goodell became Commissioner in 2006, so let's address the incidents you linked which occurred during his tenure. It was well known that the Eagles did things like that in the late 80s but obviously, the league didn't take action against them. Something done 20+ years ago has no bearing on today.

From your article:

Billick, who previously denied there were bounties on the Ravens in 2001, recently said that money routinely changes hands among players for great plays and big hits, which is against NFL rules. Billick has not said that the Ravens had any rewards for injuring other players.

Suggs later said he misspoke when he used the word bounty with respect to Ward and Mendenhall. No punishment was handed down, but the league said the second meeting of these teams would be watched very closely.

The head coach said bounties weren't issued for injuring players and Suggs said the same thing. The league apparently did not have enough evidence to investigate further. Were they telling the truth? Maybe not, but who knows?

ESPN reported that Packers defenders were paid $500 each by members of the team if they could hold Adrian Peterson to less than 100 yards rushing, and that defenders later were offered $500 each if they could hold the Carolina Panthers to under 60 yards rushing as a team.

I see no mention of placing bounties on players with the intent of injuring them in this article, either. They were effectively giving ad hoc performance bonuses which are against the rules but nowhere does it say that injuring players was rewarded.

So in one case (the Packers), there were no injury bounties and in another case (Ravens), all parties denied that injury bounties existed. No evidence existed to the contrary in either case.

 

[Imported]

It's a good thing your opinion doesn't count for shit then.

The punishment was way too harsh. Had it been New England, or some other high profile team in the north east, it would have been a little tiny slap on the wrist instead of what the Saints just got.

Their first round next year is probably going to be top 16 compared to the end of the round. It'd probably take 2 1st rounders to get that in a trade, which they could do themselves to get a second round pick back.

 

[rchiu]

Actually losing Payton is really bad for the Saints, i think he's the offensive playcaller for them... not too many HC's also do play calling.

Like I said, I think they have a good enough QB to call plays within established Payton system. They should still be decent team, and worst case they suck really bad next year, it would be just for one season. They may got lucky and get a good draft even, who knows.

 

[Phokus]

Like I said, I think they have a good enough QB to call plays within established Payton system. They should still be decent team, and worst case they suck really bad next year, it would be just for one season. They may got lucky and get a good draft even, who knows.

QB's really don't call their own plays (except in hurry up offense), closest thing is peyton and even then, his OC typically gives him a few plays to choose from and he makes the decision.

 

[Via]

Harsh penalties, but it had to be done.

If a star player ever had his career ended and it could be proven there was a bounty on him the dollar amount of the lawsuit would be stratospheric.

Now you have a precedent - this is waht happens if you do this, so knock it off. NO more bounties, even among players.

 

[Tim]

Something done 20+ years ago has no bearing on today.

Stopped reading right after that part.

 

[CLite]

QB's really don't call their own plays (except in hurry up offense), closest thing is peyton and even then, his OC typically gives him a few plays to choose from and he makes the decision.

Ever since he broke his leg (and even after he recovered) the OC has been calling plays, or at least I've read that recently.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Stopped reading right after that part.

Your loss.

New commissioner, new times -- the NFL is under much more scrutiny. And for the record, Buddy Ryan should've been thoroughly investigated and punished if he placed bounties for injuring players.

 

[Tim]

All so easy for you to say. I really don't think people (yourself included) understand the real nature of football...

 

[Fingolfin269]

Your loss.

New commissioner, new times -- the NFL is under much more scrutiny. And for the record, Buddy Ryan should've been thoroughly investigated and punished if he placed bounties for injuring players.

Exactly. It doesn't matter how things used to go down in the "good 'ol days". Like it or not the sport has evolved and the league is not going to put up with this kind of stuff. There is way too much money at stake.

 

[Fingolfin269]

All so easy for you to say. I really don't think people (yourself included) understand the real nature of football...

Whatever it is your describing exists only in your mind. What just happened to the Saints is real and is the direction of (NFL)football as it is today. There is nothing you can do about it short of turning off the TV and finding something else to fill your Sunday and Monday night.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

All so easy for you to say. I really don't think people (yourself included) understand the real nature of football...

I do know the nature of football. What I think about any of this is irrelevant. Goodell has sent a message that this behavior will no longer be tolerated, and that's the end of the story. When you spend $1+ billion and buy your own NFL team, feel free to lead a revolt of owners against him. Until then, your opinion is worth as much as mine or anyone else's opinion.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Whatever it is your describing exists only in your mind. What just happened to the Saints is real and is the direction of football as it is today. There is nothing you can do about it short of turning off the TV and finding something else to fill your Sunday and Monday night.

That's the point. Saying "The Eagles did it 20 years ago! The Saints shouldn't be punished!" is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard (no one here has explicitly said that, but they've implied it). Guess what? Times change and with the focus on injuries (and especially head injuries, with even Congress having hearings), Goodell has to do what he thinks is right to protect the league. He might be right or he might be wrong, but he is being paid millions to do the job.

Do people seriously think he should come out and say "Well, I know the Eagles did it 20 years ago and there are unsubstantiated rumors of many teams doing it, so I'm OK with the bounty system." Seriously?

 

[Tim]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a bounty system.

 

[RPD]

If all these actions cause the team to tank, which normally means good draft picks, they should be stripped of those as well.

 

[BergeLSU]

Ever since he broke his leg (and even after he recovered) the OC has been calling plays, or at least I've read that recently.

Saints started 4-1, then Payton broke his leg during the Tampa Bay game. They ended up losing that game. They blasted the Colts, then lost to the winless Rams. After that, Payton made his way back to the sidelines, and the Saints didn't lose again until the 49ers game.

I'd say things don't look great for the Saints.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Actually losing Payton is really bad for the Saints, i think he's the offensive playcaller for them... not too many HC's also do play calling.

Pete Carmichael called all the plays when Payton was injured and shared play calling responsibilities even when he returned. the O didn't suffer.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'm not sure I get your point. Where did I say anything differently? Who ever said this stuff isn't happening elsewhere? The Saints just happened to be the first ones where an investigation led to an undeniable finding of guilt and people covering it up. That's the difference. No one (least of all me) denies that Goodell is using the Saints as an example.

Also, not only were they warned to stop and didn't, they explicitly LIED about it. Big difference.

The league is now under intense scrutiny regarding injuries, specifically, brain injuries. IIRC, several lawsuits have been filed against them. Goodell pretty much HAS TO take action when reports like this surface. Keep in mind, the Saints were being investigated BEFORE the alleged "snitch" came forward when the Vikings launched a formal complaint about an alleged bounty against Favre.

My understanding is that the snitch did NOT go public but rather, reported it to the NFL office after the initial investigation closed, forcing them to reopen it. It was then that the truth was revealed that Payton and company lied to cover it up.




Goodell became Commissioner in 2006, so let's address the incidents you linked which occurred during his tenure. It was well known that the Eagles did things like that in the late 80s but obviously, the league didn't take action against them. Something done 20+ years ago has no bearing on today.

From your article:



The head coach said bounties weren't issued for injuring players and Suggs said the same thing. The league apparently did not have enough evidence to investigate further. Were they telling the truth? Maybe not, but who knows?



I see no mention of placing bounties on players with the intent of injuring them in this article, either. They were effectively giving ad hoc performance bonuses which are against the rules but nowhere does it say that injuring players was rewarded.

So in one case (the Packers), there were no injury bounties and in another case (Ravens), all parties denied that injury bounties existed. No evidence existed to the contrary in either case.

Wow. 20 years? Packers in 2007 and Ravens in 2008. And if it happened 20 years ago, it stopped happening til the Saints? I've got a bridge to sell you.

We used to talk about hurting players in high school. B/c we didn't document it, it means it didn't happen. I'm afraid to mention other stuff that happens in football. It may ruin your image of the game. But then again, your former GM was accused of a bunch of those.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Wow. 20 years? Packers in 2007 and Ravens in 2008. And if it happened 20 years ago, it stopped happening til the Saints? I've got a bridge to sell you.

Did you even read my post?

You're the one providing an article showing the 18 year gap between incidents. Where did I say it might have stopped? You're the one providing the article -- an article that seems to indicate this mysterious gap between 1989 and 2007 IIRC. You tell me -- where are the missing ones at? I never said that bounties never happened and I never claimed that there was a 20-year gap -- I said an incident happening 20 years ago doesn't have a bearing today. Read my post again -- I said that only the incidents occurring during Goodell's tenure as commissioner are relevant and that is entirely true.

Besides that, the article you linked didn't help your argument. The Packers' "bounty" system was an ad hoc performance bonus and clearly was NOT rewarding players for injuring others. The Ravens incident is a little more cloudy but both coach and player deny that bounties were given for injuring others. The NFL had no other evidence to investigate, apparently.

We used to talk about hurting players in high school. B/c we didn't document it, it means it didn't happen?

Who said it doesn't happen? Where did I say bounties have never been used in the NFL before? Please link to the post where I said that.

I'm afraid to mention other stuff that happens in football. It may ruin your image of the game. But then again, your former GM was accused of a bunch of those.

So, you don't think I'm aware of some of these things that go on? Seriously? Please, link a post of mine that says:

1. "Bounties NEVER happened until the Saints."
2. "Filming of opposing teams NEVER happened until the Pats."

In fact, you won't link those posts because they don't exist. The one thing I have said is that these teams happened to be the first ones that got investigated, found guilty, and punished severely. Are you disputing this claim? If so, please show me other teams guilty of the same offenses that WERE punished severely before either of the teams above.

You guys are butthurt that your teams (Pats, Saints) were caught doing something they shouldn't have been doing and severely punished for it. Your opinion on this doesn't matter, and neither does my opinion. Roger Goodell is paid to run the league and if the owners are against him, they should remove him. I'll tell you the same thing I've told others -- times have changed, and the NFL is under intense scrutiny with regards to injuries and they HAD to act. If you don't like it, pony up $1+ billion to buy a team and challenge Goodell.

 

[RPD]

Wow. 20 years? Packers in 2007 and Ravens in 2008. And if it happened 20 years ago, it stopped happening til the Saints? I've got a bridge to sell you.

We used to talk about hurting players in high school. B/c we didn't document it, it means it didn't happen. I'm afraid to mention other stuff that happens in football. It may ruin your image of the game. But then again, your former GM was accused of a bunch of those.

It would help if you actually read what you quoted and "responded" to.

 

[Pocatello]

Hurricane Goodell has just blown through the New Orleans Saints organization. If any other team still think they can get away with deliberately hurting the star players of other teams, they can do so at a great risk.

 

[IAteYourMother]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a bounty system.

you mean besides the fact that it's highly illegal to pay someone to purposely injure someone? The money makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Tim]

you mean besides the fact that it's highly illegal to pay someone to purposely injure someone? The money makes all the difference in the world.

Do you really think that the chump change (by their standards) they were putting into this was really their motivation?

I swear, this place is filled with some of the most dense sheeple around.

 

[RPD]

Do you really think that the chump change (by their standards) they were putting into this was really their motivation?

I swear, this place is filled with some of the most dense sheeple around.

Oh the irony.

 

[rasczak]

It's a good thing your opinion doesn't count for shit then.

The punishment was way too harsh. Had it been New England, or some other high profile team in the north east, it would have been a little tiny slap on the wrist instead of what the Saints just got.

No way man. There's a big difference between spying and the bounty program. The bounty program is way worse as they were actively trying to injure ppl. In terms of the law that's battery. Im interested in seeing how far this will actually go as far as legal matters are concerned.

Yep. Looks like it's starting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/03/22/bounty.senator.ap/index.html?sct=nfl_t2_a3