Saints caught running "bounty" program that awarded injuring players

[vi edit]

Really? A player would know where a weakness is regardless of what's told to him...if the offensive player is playing inquired, that's on him. QBs play with injured shoulders all the time. Should the pass rush avoid a hit to the should to cause a fumble because they would be running the risk of further injuring the shoulder? Or web Ben Roth was playing on a limping foot last year...is the D expected not to make an ankle tackle because it's going to further aggravate his injury?

There's a fine line between playing hard and playing dirty. Squaring up on a WR or QB and planting your shoulder into his chest and driving him into the ground is one thing. Turning yourself into a projectile and aiming for the opponents head or knees is something entirely different.

It's much like the "flagrant" fouls in basketball. There's good old fashioned hard fouls where you make a legitimate attempt at the ball and your momentum knocks them down or really hits them hard. And then there's purely intended hacks where you are doing nothing more than trying to take someone's head off with no actual attempt and defending your position.

And then it's even another thing beyond that to reward the intended behavior and encourage it.

These guys are paid for being able to perform and do their job. Taking out a player's knees or head (intentionally) can end a career, threaten long term life span, and cost owners and fans a chance for a successful season. There's nothing sporting about it and there's very little the offensive side of the ball can do to help regulate/retaliate the actions. It's not a good practice for the players, teams, or the fans in general.

I'm not saying that injuries and brutal hit's aren't part of the game. They are. But thug league tactics and intentionally trying to disable a player is a disgusting practice and should be severely punished.

 

[thegimp03]

Pretty sure this has been going on league-wide for years. The Saints are just unlucky enough to be the first team caught red-handed.

 

[Phokus]

Pretty sure this has been going on league-wide for years. The Saints are just unlucky enough to be the first team caught red-handed.

I think most of those bounties were player pools though. Here you have a coach and a convicted felon that's not even really a Saints employee putting money into the pot too.

 

[LegendKiller]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...r-after-favre-injury-pay-me-my-money/related/


I hope this brings down every Saint player, coach, and the owner.

 

[MetalMat]

 

[dougp]

There's a fine line between playing hard and playing dirty. Squaring up on a WR or QB and planting your shoulder into his chest and driving him into the ground is one thing. Turning yourself into a projectile and aiming for the opponents head or knees is something entirely different.

It's much like the "flagrant" fouls in basketball. There's good old fashioned hard fouls where you make a legitimate attempt at the ball and your momentum knocks them down or really hits them hard. And then there's purely intended hacks where you are doing nothing more than trying to take someone's head off with no actual attempt and defending your position.

And then it's even another thing beyond that to reward the intended behavior and encourage it.

These guys are paid for being able to perform and do their job. Taking out a player's knees or head (intentionally) can end a career, threaten long term life span, and cost owners and fans a chance for a successful season. There's nothing sporting about it and there's very little the offensive side of the ball can do to help regulate/retaliate the actions. It's not a good practice for the players, teams, or the fans in general.

I'm not saying that injuries and brutal hit's aren't part of the game. They are. But thug league tactics and intentionally trying to disable a player is a disgusting practice and should be severely punished.

And yet I didn't see anyone condemning the Redkins defense for saying they'd aim for Romo's ribs this season, or the Giants for saying they'd go after Brady's non-throwing shoulder.

 

[NeoV]

going after an injured player - with legal hits - is different than running a bounty system - if you can't see the difference, then further discussion is pointless

 

[dougp]

going after an injured player - with legal hits - is different than running a bounty system - if you can't see the difference, then further discussion is pointless

Huh? You think there wasn't a bounty system in place in any other team? If you can't see THAT, then further discussion is pointless.

 

[vi edit]

And yet I didn't see anyone condemning the Redkins defense for saying they'd aim for Romo's ribs this season, or the Giants for saying they'd go after Brady's non-throwing shoulder.

It's still different to me.

When Ben had a bum ankle it's one thing to send a lot of heat to make him back peddle or a spy and force him to scramble on a busted wheel vs. sending a guy to dive at his foot and try to further injure it.

Or with Romo with a well documented rib injury sending in an aggressive pass rush to rough him up vs a deliberate plan to knock an otherwise healthy QB out of a game via cheap shots.

Going after weaknesses isn't much different than sending in a heavy pass rush on a rookie or subbed in o-line or having a QB torch a 3rd string corner that got thrown in the game.

To me there are reasonable and "sportsmanlike" ways of exploiting weaknesses. Intentionally going for killshots on opponents in a team game is not one of them.

 

[rchiu]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...r-after-favre-injury-pay-me-my-money/related/


I hope this brings down every Saint player, coach, and the owner.

Because you know every Saint player, coach and the owner is directly involved or condone this practice? And you know every bit of information and the fact behind this? And you can clearly tell for a fact, or draw the line, that the "bounty" is to harm opposing player and not reward big defensive play?

Not that I support what happened with Saint, but media in general and certain people here in ATOT loves to act like they know everything and everything is so black and white.

Why not let the investigation continue, find out exactly what the facts are and punish those who are involved, but leave those who are not out of this?

 

[SirStev0]

hypocrisy aplenty: Every year the NFL puts out a top hits list.

 

[bgcpen]

Been going on for a long time. Too bad for Saints they got caught.

 

[dougp]

It's still different to me.

When Ben had a bum ankle it's one thing to send a lot of heat to make him back peddle or a spy and force him to scramble on a busted wheel vs. sending a guy to dive at his foot and try to further injure it.

Or with Romo with a well documented rib injury sending in an aggressive pass rush to rough him up vs a deliberate plan to knock an otherwise healthy QB out of a game via cheap shots.

Going after weaknesses isn't much different than sending in a heavy pass rush on a rookie or subbed in o-line or having a QB torch a 3rd string corner that got thrown in the game.

To me there are reasonable and "sportsmanlike" ways of exploiting weaknesses. Intentionally going for killshots on opponents in a team game is not one of them.

I think you missed what I said, vi. There is still a fucking bounty, PERIOD. Just because YOU seem to think there isn't so it's more sportsmanlike, that's pretty freaking naive. The opposing team KNOWS the player has an injury, and they are targeting it - regardless of strategy and tact (cheap vs. clean hit), odds are more than likely that there is a bounty of some type among the players. It's like "Spygate" where everyone likes to be naive and pretend that ONLY the Patriots did it, when you have former coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson) coming out and saying it was practiced by all teams - in this situation, former defensive players have come out and said that it's done on other teams. Open your eyes - like I said earlier, the fan base and media is largely responsible as we watch the game change to high flying, hard hitting instead of the grid-iron football.

 

[Corporate Thug]

There's a fine line between playing hard and playing dirty. Squaring up on a WR or QB and planting your shoulder into his chest and driving him into the ground is one thing. Turning yourself into a projectile and aiming for the opponents head or knees is something entirely different.

It's much like the "flagrant" fouls in basketball. There's good old fashioned hard fouls where you make a legitimate attempt at the ball and your momentum knocks them down or really hits them hard. And then there's purely intended hacks where you are doing nothing more than trying to take someone's head off with no actual attempt and defending your position.

And then it's even another thing beyond that to reward the intended behavior and encourage it.

These guys are paid for being able to perform and do their job. Taking out a player's knees or head (intentionally) can end a career, threaten long term life span, and cost owners and fans a chance for a successful season. There's nothing sporting about it and there's very little the offensive side of the ball can do to help regulate/retaliate the actions. It's not a good practice for the players, teams, or the fans in general.

I'm not saying that injuries and brutal hit's aren't part of the game. They are. But thug league tactics and intentionally trying to disable a player is a disgusting practice and should be severely punished.

Can't compare a full contact sport to a sport where contact (fouls) are a circumstantial part of the game.

I'm not justifying the behavior, all I'm saying is that it's gonna happen with out without a bounty system in place.

I've seen tons of videos/articles of people talking about what goes on in a fumble scrum (pinching, punching, scratching, pulling limbs and hard, hitting other players in the nuts, etc.) Is that a good practice? Nope. Is it part of the game? absolutely.

 

[palswim]

And hand it to Peyton Manning.

So, you want the Cardinals or Jets to have it?

 

[JSt0rm]

Im going to create a bounty program. Whoever injures a saints player will receive $10,000. The injury must be brutal.

 

[GCS]

If you guys think that the Saints are the only team in the league doing this you must be on something. I will bet good money every team is doing this, the Saints got caught plain and simple. But don't kid yourselves into thinking that the rest of the league isn't doing this as well.

As far as GW goes -- yes he is an a$$. Always thought he was and frankly was never a fan of his defenses (I am a skins fan).

 

[440sixpack]

It's like "Spygate" where everyone likes to be naive and pretend that ONLY the Patriots did it, when you have former coaches (most notably Jimmy Johnson) coming out and saying it was practiced by all teams - in this situation, former defensive players have come out and said that it's done on other teams.

No one ever wants to hear this, they just want to gang up on the team that got caught. Not that it makes it right if others are doing it, but it at least illustrates that having a "holier than thou" attitude against the caught offenders can be a little hypocritical.

 

[airdata]

Something like this goes beyond bad sportsmanship and into the criminal realm.

You're talking about doing bodily harm to somebody and being rewarded for it?

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

No one ever wants to hear this, they just want to gang up on the team that got caught. Not that it makes it right if others are doing it, but it at least illustrates that having a "holier than thou" attitude against the caught offenders can be a little hypocritical.

If you're going to cheat, don't get caught. Look at Barry Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. Sure everyone else is doing it but no ones going to say anything unless you're caught. Look at Jay Cutler and his bruised left bicep from the '11 Olympia. Had a bruised left bicep from a bad SEO injection. Everyone knows the pros use gear but he got caught red handed and lost a lot of respect.

Also, I wouldn't really call this cheating. It's trying to hurt someone and not trying to play the game. Most guys like to get a good hit on someone and ring their bells but in this case they're trying to break bones or end careers.

 

[IAteYourMother]

If you're going to cheat, don't get caught. Look at Barry Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. Sure everyone else is doing it but no ones going to say anything unless you're caught. Look at Jay Cutler and his bruised left bicep from the '11 Olympia. Had a bruised left bicep from a bad SEO injection. Everyone knows the pros use gear but he got caught red handed and lost a lot of respect.

The funny part of your example is that way more people than Bonds/Sosa got caught using steroids, they just happened to be better players than everyone else. You look at the number of people in the Mitchell Report, those guys you mentioned were just scapegoats.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

The funny part of your example is that way more people than Bonds/Sosa got caught using steroids, they just happened to be better players than everyone else. You look at the number of people in the Mitchell Report, those guys you mentioned were just scapegoats.

That's a good point. I guess if you're on top you're an even bigger target. Need to be smarter about it. More scrutinized just like everything else in the world.

 

[Fern]

I agree the optics look terrible.

Otherwise I'm a bit ambivalent.

From the moment you first begin playing you are taught and encouraged to hit as hard as possible. That's what they are doing here.

In high school and college you helmet stickers etc for hard hits. They're nothing but a bounty of sorts.

Most of these guys are making hundreds of thousands of $'s per game, if not more. How a bounty of $10K is all that much more motivating I don't see.

You hit people dirty these days and you'll quickly draw a personal foul. Just one of those at an inopportune time can cause you to lose the game. I.e., the player can go from hero-to-scapegoat instantly as a result of chasing a bounty.

I think the biggest problem for the NFL is one of PR. Right now they're on top of the pro sports world. If people get the impression they're nothing but a bunch of gangsta's and thugs that could change. That could mean big, big money.

To the extent bounties actually do increase injuries, that's another league problem. They want and need the best product possible on the field. That means uninjured starters. Otherwise ticket sales and associated revenue fall, as does viewership. Here, more loss of big $'s.

For those reasons I expect the league to come down pretty hard to ensure this stuff stops.

Fern

 

[lupi]

damn, first saw the news banner and thought it was about williams getting a year, peyton getting it is pretty big.

 

[Drako]

Wow, 1 year for Sean Peyton, and the loss of 2 second rounders. Saints are screwed.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7718136/sean-payton-new-orleans-saints-banned-one-year-bounties