Samsung 710T

[lozina]

Guess I'm going to hold off on the 172X and wait for Samsung to work on a new PVA panel instead of this TN one.

 

[Sarge1]

From the Samsung website....
Color Supported 16.2 Mil.

 

[MadScientist]

Samsung's USA site says it supports 16.7 mil. Which is right and does it really make a difference?

710T

 

[PowderBB3D]

Well I've decided to drop my cash on the 710T. I'll see what she's like and let you guys know my opinion on it once it arrives (Monday, latest I'd say).

 

[bze4]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Looked around a bit more, found out that yes, the 710T does in fact produce 24 bit color unlike the 172X. Hardforums has quite a lot of feedback on the 172Xs and 710Ts (Nice posts in both forums, Excelsior).

People, I just wonder how easily you make assumptions? I've also read Hardforums, and the only thing I've seen is the same "Samsung USA has 24-bit color for 710T". I've seen a post that claims 710T's picture is better than 172X, and I've seen a post that both look, side-by-side, exactly the same, and finally I've seen a post that says 172X has a better picture than 710T. I also read earlier similar posts about 172X, wildly varying claims about it being PVA or TN, 12ms or 25ms and 16.2M colors vs. 16.7M colors.

Many people write that "172X is a PVA monitor", while it's been clearly attributed in Anandtech's/Tom's /Xbitlab's reviews that the 172X with PVA was _cancelled_, and the 172X that was brought to the market only a few months ago is now based on TN and is rated at 12ms (originally it was not, as PVA is not currently capable of low response times, especially grey-to-grey).

Now, after all this ranting, I'm still pretty convinced that 172X and 710T use the same panel, and both are 12ms 18-bit monitors which thus _may_ have problems with gradients, but that depends on the viewer. Stated contrast ratios are even more "marketing babble" than response times, and 500:1 and 600:1 might mean exactly the same as the actual contrast ratio varies depending on the monitor settings and can be as low as 250:1 for those monitors.

Also to be noted, manufacturers can't produce 24-bit 12ms monitors if no-one produces such panels, and I haven't seen any such notices either, pointing to the same fact - AFAIK all the 12ms and even 16ms panels use 18-bit color, and also the upcoming 10ms Hydis is reportedly 18-bit, as is 14ms Acer.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: bze4

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Looked around a bit more, found out that yes, the 710T does in fact produce 24 bit color unlike the 172X. Hardforums has quite a lot of feedback on the 172Xs and 710Ts (Nice posts in both forums, Excelsior).

People, I just wonder how easily you make assumptions? I've also read Hardforums, and the only thing I've seen is the same "Samsung USA has 24-bit color for 710T". I've seen a post that claims 710T's picture is better than 172X, and I've seen a post that both look, side-by-side, exactly the same, and finally I've seen a post that says 172X has a better picture than 710T. I also read earlier similar posts about 172X, wildly varying claims about it being PVA or TN, 12ms or 25ms and 16.2M colors vs. 16.7M colors.

Many people write that "172X is a PVA monitor", while it's been clearly attributed in Anandtech's/Tom's /Xbitlab's reviews that the 172X with PVA was _cancelled_, and the 172X that was brought to the market only a few months ago is now based on TN and is rated at 12ms (originally it was not, as PVA is not currently capable of low response times, especially grey-to-grey).

Now, after all this ranting, I'm still pretty convinced that 172X and 710T use the same panel, and both are 12ms 18-bit monitors which thus _may_ have problems with gradients, but that depends on the viewer. Stated contrast ratios are even more "marketing babble" than response times, and 500:1 and 600:1 might mean exactly the same as the actual contrast ratio varies depending on the monitor settings and can be as low as 250:1 for those monitors.

Also to be noted, manufacturers can't produce 24-bit 12ms monitors if no-one produces such panels, and I haven't seen any such notices either, pointing to the same fact - AFAIK all the 12ms and even 16ms panels use 18-bit color, and also the upcoming 10ms Hydis is reportedly 18-bit, as is 14ms Acer.

Yep. Even still, it looks damn good.

 

[s2kpacifist]

Some people have said in the hardforums that the 710T is 18-bit.

If you run a search, 710T is listed with 24-bit color on the manufacturer's site. If you're positive that it is indeed 18-bit color, you can accuse Samsung (and other LCD manufacturers) of false advertising, since they list their LCDs, including the 710T, as having 16.7 million colors with a 12ms response time.
710T

Perhaps the 710T is a 16ms panel with real 24-bit color? Like you said, specs on the net are all over the place. 16.7 with 12ms, 16.2 with 12ms, 16.7 with 16ms....it goes on and on. I'm trusting the official specs on Samsung's website for now.

If the 172X and 710T do use the same panel, would that mean the 172X is over $100 more expensive because of how it looks? $100 is a bit too much for putting the power brick on the outside and making the case brushed aluminum...hell, my gigantic brushed aluminum Lian-Li case was $115. Something doesn't add up.

 

[imported_hallucinated]

im goign to be in college next year, and i've been looking for an LCD. i was thinking that despite the response times and all, SGI 1600sw was one of the best LCDs around. any comments on this? on ebay, 1600sw and multilink can be gotten for about 400~450 with good patience and all. any hands-on comparisons?

it's 24 bit true color but 25ms. but when it was review back in like 1998s gaming sites said that they experienced no ghosting at all.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
Some people have said in the hardforums that the 710T is 18-bit.

If you run a search, 710T is listed with 24-bit color on the manufacturer's site. If you're positive that it is indeed 18-bit color, you can accuse Samsung (and other LCD manufacturers) for false advertising, since they list their LCDs, including the 710T, as having 16.7 million colors with a 12ms response time.
710T

Perhaps the 710T is a 16ms panel with real 24-bit color? Like you said, specs on the net are all over the place.

Actually, it wouldn't be the first time that mfg's were misleading about the color specs of their LCD panels and devices. I think it was either HP or Compaq that had a class-action lawsuit levelled at them for one of their PDA models. Specs said "24-bit color", even though that was really only "24-bit effective color", I believe that the actual LCD display-controller on the unit in question was only capable of 12-bit color, and it dithered the rest. To the software, the framebuffer looked like it was 24-bit though.

It would be interesting if this question could be put to rest, because while I'd personally like a very fast-response panel for gaming purposes, I wouldn't want to give up my full gamut of color-reproduction just to do so.

It also seems rather pathetic to me, how low-resolution most 19" panels are. It seems very much akin to the plethora of low-budget 15"/17" CRT monitors, with absolutely horrible DPI (.29, .31, .37 even). To me, a 19" panel at 1280x1024 is equivalent to a low-DPI CRT. There's no way that I would purchase one.

 

[bze4]

Originally posted by: s2kpacifist
If you run a search, 710T is listed with 24-bit color on the manufacturer's site. If you're positive that it is indeed 18-bit color, you can accuse Samsung (and other LCD manufacturers) of false advertising, since they list their LCDs, including the 710T, as having 16.7 million colors with a 12ms response time.
710T

Perhaps the 710T is a 16ms panel with real 24-bit color? Like you said, specs on the net are all over the place. 16.7 with 12ms, 16.2 with 12ms, 16.7 with 16ms....it goes on and on. I'm trusting the official specs on Samsung's website for now.

Yes, Samsung's USA site claims so, some other Samsung sites claim 16.2 million colors. So, which "official specs" you trust is the matter of question There are _many_ mistakes in the specifications on any Samsung's site, so there's no trusting to what they say on their website(s). The UK site says 710T has just 500:1 contrast ratio and that it has 15ms response time. The global site (which I searched first, actually) does not have 710T at all, and for example the Finnish Samsung site states again 12ms, 16.2M colors and 600:1 contrast ratio.

If the 172X and 710T do use the same panel, would that mean the 172X is over $100 more expensive because of how it looks? $100 is a bit too much for putting the power brick on the outside and making the case brushed aluminum...hell, my gigantic brushed aluminum Lian-Li case was $115. Something doesn't add up.

Well, stylish design has more value than just the money needed to make it. With the style and the light weight (ca. 4kg), 172X might be appealing even at a higher price.

 

[FacelessNobody]

710T here, works beautifully, looks great.

 

[drhill]

I got my 710t yesterday. I'm liking it a lot. Doesn't seem to ghost. As far as I can tell it is a 24bit display, but I just need to get the colors/brightness/contract calibrated. Isn't there a site that gives you profile settings for lcd monitors (I remember how much fun it was adjusting my hdtv and the included samsung software is not cool)?

FarCry looked great, no ghosting. Thief 3 seemed .... washed out (not that I can play it till I get 4.8 cats for my x800).

Thief3's problem seems to be part of one slight annoyance I have with this monitor. Maybe it is normal (my first lcd). But at the top and bottom of the screen (centered from the sides) it looks like the backlight is shining through to the screen. Is this normal for lcds or did I get a defective one? Anyone?

 

[PowderBB3D]

Originally posted by: drhill
I got my 710t yesterday. I'm liking it a lot. Doesn't seem to ghost. As far as I can tell it is a 24bit display, but I just need to get the colors/brightness/contract calibrated. Isn't there a site that gives you profile settings for lcd monitors (I remember how much fun it was adjusting my hdtv and the included samsung software is not cool)?

FarCry looked great, no ghosting. Thief 3 seemed .... washed out (not that I can play it till I get 4.8 cats for my x800).

Thief3's problem seems to be part of one slight annoyance I have with this monitor. Maybe it is normal (my first lcd). But at the top and bottom of the screen (centered from the sides) it looks like the backlight is shining through to the screen. Is this normal for lcds or did I get a defective one? Anyone?

You mean to say that at the top and bottom the screen is brighter? That's not normal. LCDs should have the same brightness throughout. I haven't had a problem like that and my LCDs have always been consistant across all pixels.

 

[stickybytes]

does anyone have pics or links to the external power box of the 172x. If its too big, it might be a concern for me because i have a tight space. Plus, the 710T is just a single three prong wire just like the comp power wire right?

 

[ssong]

I received my 710T (ordered from Dell) yesterday. I also can see the light seeping through the top and bottom part of the LCD panel. It is more visible when I played DVD widescreen movie on it.

I use a SyncMaster 173T at work and it doesn't have the backlight coming through anywhere.

 

[PowderBB3D]

Hmm, that's two people with the backlight-seepage. Can anyone with this monitor confirm this as a standard problem? Actually, let me put it another way: can anyone here testify that they have a 710T that DOESN'T have backlight-seepage?

Mine still hasn't shipped yet so I can't test this myself.

 

[Davandron]

Hey all,

I was vasilating between the 2001FP and the 172x until I found the 710T and this thread. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 710T wednesday, received it today from Dell. My logic was that in the next 3 years LCDs are going to change a lot so no need to put the cash down on the 2001FP or a snazzy case (172x) but I wanted a good panel at a good price; enter the 710T

I like it so far; No dead pixels, although one pixel in the lower right hand corner (windows tray area) is only half brightness... I can only see it during a LCD-test screen filled with a solid color. No light spill problems.

This thing is BRIGHT! And after running the demo version of displaymate to set it up its doing good (factory default was pretty close).

BTW, the panel is 100mm VESA mount compatible, but the pivoting mount is great... For me the 172x's mount is NOT worth an extra $80!!!

I ran some DVDs on it (in PowerDVD) and noticed the graininess that others were complaining about... My experience is that its from the DVD and/or the software, so I downloaded the WM9 HDTV samples from Microsoft and ran those. Wow, BEAUTIFUL! DVD problems are from the DVD, not the monitor.

Although I haven't compared the it with the 172X, I can say that for anyone who is watching their pennies but still wants a GREAT monitor, the 710T definately fits the bill.

-Davandron

[Edit: typo]

 

[drhill]

Keep us posted if you see the light spill too. I'd be relieved if it is just mine so I can get a new one then.

 

[n0e5cape]

I have a 710T and mine does have "light spill" which is only noticeable when I play full screen movies. But I have to add that this is a great monitor to do it some justice, as I didn't even notice the "light spill" issue till I read this thread!

 

[PowderBB3D]

Okay. I got my 710T and I have it running in a dual-display setup with my 173p. These are my impressions:

Overall this is a good monitor. The ghosting is minimal which is a huge plus for gamers and movie watchers. I have no light-spill which means that the problems you guys are having may be defects - albeit common ones - and you could possible RMA your monitor if you think it is a big issue. There are a few problems.

First, compared to a 173p this monitor is lackluster. The 173p is a 25ms panel and the ghosting is more detectable but the quality is much better. The 710T halos on 60 sharp and blurs on 40 sharp meaning that if they let you get a 50 sharp in there you'd be fine - but you can't. Whites and blacks aren't perfectly white or perfectly black; generally there is some tinge of either a color or gray and the hour I spent tuning couldn't get rid of it. It also seems to refresh at a wierd frequency but perhaps that's just because I can only run it at 75hz on my ti4600. Color depth is not as good as a 173p and on factory settings the screen appears white-washed (I managed to correct this for the most part; be prepared to do some heavy tuning if you want the best picture quality and understand it won't ever be perfect). Gamma can only be adjusted with three presets and two of them are so bright they're worthless - in effect, gamma can't be adjusted.

Analog connection works fine and is almost as good as the digitial connection - the calibration is easy and the menu you use to do so is very well designed.

Final Thoughts: The 710T is a great monitor for the price but it is not perfect. If you can find a better deal or afford it I'd recommend the 173p. If the ghosting really messes with you then you might have to go with the 710T but keep in mind you'll be sacrificing picture quality and color depth.

 

[trim]

Hello!

I have a 710T at 1280x1024 @75Hz on DVI cable.

The problems is some fonts are to small.

Are you using 120 DPI and Large fonts in windows xp?
What are you brightness/contrast settings?



btw. my graphics card is 9600 PRO.

 

[LanceM]

I received a 710T today from Dell.

Was delighted to find zero dead pixels. However... with a black bg, there's quite a bit of light at the top of the screen, and a little bit around every edge. On lighter colors, I notice that the bottom-right area is easily lighter than the rest. There's a complete "dark to light" shading from upper-left to bottom-right going on if I change my desktop color to a mid-gray.

This is a very, very bright monitor. Ghosting is there on UT, but definitely not a big problem at all. Looks beautiful on full screen pictures/movies/games, but it's just so danged bright with a white background/black text situation.

Any config tips for this monitor?

 

[Necrolord]

Did any of you guys had the chance to test thoroughly test the 710T via HD15 instead of DVI?
I'm trying to figure out if the extra cash for that option is really worth vs the 710N withtout it.

BTW, all the TFT monitors currently available in the market, that do <16ms, are TN based 6bit panels with dithering, despite all the fuss around the available info on Samsung's USA site, it can only represent 16.2M colors (via dithering), like 172X. Only the 173P uses PVA tech on the panel, with 16.7M true color.

Thanks in advance.
:thumbsup:

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: LanceM
I received a 710T today from Dell.

Was delighted to find zero dead pixels. However... with a black bg, there's quite a bit of light at the top of the screen, and a little bit around every edge. On lighter colors, I notice that the bottom-right area is easily lighter than the rest. There's a complete "dark to light" shading from upper-left to bottom-right going on if I change my desktop color to a mid-gray.

This is a very, very bright monitor. Ghosting is there on UT, but definitely not a big problem at all. Looks beautiful on full screen pictures/movies/games, but it's just so danged bright with a white background/black text situation.

Any config tips for this monitor?

I set my brightness to 40 and contrast to 80, thats all. I like it.

 

[Jamin3D]

Just ordered 2 of the 710T's from Dell. Radeon 9800 Pro, so the main one will be DVI, and 2nd will be analog. I'll post the results once they arrive (hopefully next week).

They're replacing 2 Samsung 19" 955DF's, btw. Ever since I got my wife a Dell 2001FP, I've been wanting to go LCD... Saw the 710T locally, and it looked good. Combined with all the excellent reviews and decent price from Dell... done deal.