Samsung Exynos Thread (big.LITTLE Octa-core)

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Mar 10, 2006
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Yes. Although CPU is supposed to be quite something as well. Their PR team isn't that great so those 30% perf/ 10% efficiency numbers can mean anything. They vastly undersold the 7420 last time.

You're really a big fan of Samsung, huh?

Anyway, this actually looks like a cool AP, especially impressed that they're basically TTM with Qualcomm on the modem features. That GPU is nice and big, too. Samsung's APs are getting quite competitive, no doubt, and Qualcomm should probably not really count on winning much high end Samsung business going forward.

CPU looks like it's probably going to be S820-class, so solid effort, although +30% perf probably means it will underperform a pair of 1.85GHz Twisters in the A9, let alone the 2.26GHz ones in the A9X.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Exynos 8890 is official (Damn their Korean news releases while I'm sleeping)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9781/samsung-announces-exynos-8890

Mali T880MP12, that's massive. Expecting it to match or surpass the A9.

Very impressive, thanks for sharing Andrei. Looking at Kirin 950's score with a measly T880MP4 the new Exynos should be able to score ~45 FPS @ Manhattan offscreen even if it's clocked lower. That's really massive for a phone.


The exynos 7420 is already faster in multithread benchmarks by quite a margin compared to apple a9...5400 vs 4500

A9 is faster on st and graphics performance...and im sure the next exynos would at last catch up on graphics and will still be slower in st but wider the margin on mt by quite a bit...

That's what I'm expecting as well. Looking at the new Snapdragon 820 scores lopri just posted, suddenly A9 doesn't seem so unbeatable anymore. I don't expect Exynos 8890 to match A9's single-thread performance, but it should be close, coupled with much better (class leading) multi-thread performance.

Some bits from the AnandTech article:

AnandTech said:
The Exynos 8890 is still an 4+4 big.LITTLE design using four Cortex A53 cores as the little cores, but for the first time we see Samsung's custom developed CPU architecture deployed in silicon. The new core, officially called the Exynos M1, is the first fruit of years-long efforts by Samsung's Austin R&D Center to try to create an in-house CPU architecture. What we do know of the M1 is that it's still very similar to ARM's big core architectures (And thus might be a derivative) such as the A72: It's still a 3-wide OoO design with the same amount of execution pipelines and similar, although not quite identical pipeline stages on the execution units.

Samsung is claiming the Exynos 8890 will provide up to 30% higher performance and 10% better power efficiency than the Exynos 7420's - although the wording is a bit vague and doesn't specify if we're talking about a pure architectural comparison or actual implementation comparison, as previous PR numbers on the Exynos 7420 also didn't quite represent the full improvements of the chipset.

Samsung follows MediaTek's example by dropping the use of ARM's CCI IP in favour of designing their own cache-coherent interconnect fabric aptly named SCI (Samsung Coherent Interconnect). It seems that vendors are keen to try to improve their SoC architectures by designing fully optimized SoC fabric solutions and I guess Samsung saw the need to differentiate in this regard.

On the GPU side, we see usage of an ARM Mali T880M12. This is the biggest Mali core implementation to date and increases the number of cores by 50% compared to the Exynos 7420's MP8 configuration. Keeping in mind that the T880 also increases ALU pipelines per core by 50%, we're looking at an 2.25x increase in computational power assuming Samsung kept the clock frequencies equal. Alternatively, they could go lower in frequency for much improved power efficiency. Samsung advertises 4K as an option for this SoC so likely we're looking at a very powerful GPU setup.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Very impressive, thanks for sharing Andrei. Looking at Kirin 950's score with a measly T880MP4 the new Exynos should be able to score ~45 FPS @ Manhattan offscreen even if it's clocked lower. That's really massive for a phone.

Agree!

That's what I'm expecting as well. Looking at the new Snapdragon 820 scores lopri just posted, suddenly A9 doesn't seem so unbeatable anymore. I don't expect Exynos 8890 to match A9's single-thread performance, but it should be close, coupled with much better (class leading) multi-thread performance.

A9 went into production a while ago and has already made it into the hands of millions of customers. By the time 820/Exynos 8890 hit the market, A9 will already be halfway through its life-cycle and as we'v seen those Twister cores have a lot of clock headroom. A10 should put some more distance between iPhone and whatever flagship 820/8890 designs that launch in the Sept. timeframe.
 

Andrei.

Senior member
Jan 26, 2015
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we'v seen those Twister cores have a lot of clock headroom. A10 should put some more distance between iPhone
Keep in mind A10 won't have any meaningful process jump this time around, they'd have to rely on architecture to give improvements but then again Apple seems to have massive momentum in that regard.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Keep in mind A10 won't have any meaningful process jump this time around, they'd have to rely on architecture to give improvements but then again Apple seems to have massive momentum in that regard.

Process technology is nice and allows for nice things like the big fat frequency boost we saw in A9 over A8/A7, but I seriously doubt that the Twister architecture -- as nice as it is -- represents the pinnacle of what can be done in a 14/16nm class process.

TBH I think a 2.26GHz A9 would have fit the thermal envelope of the iPhone 6s/6s Plus just fine, but I doubt that from a cost/yield perspective Apple could have built millions upon millions of chips that met those specifications on the brand new 14nm LPP/16FF+.

Next year, 16FF+ will be quite mature (and from what I am told it has better electrical characteristics than Samsung 14LPP), so Apple will be able to push the clock speeds up while guaranteeing good yields next year. I also expect Apple didn't hire the mass of world class architects that it did to just coast with the A10, so expect that they will make some interesting architecture improvements as well.

My guess is we will see +10-15% perf/clock ST, introduction of SMT, and some serious work to improve the latency of the L3$ that sits there. All told, I'm betting Apple will claim a 30-40% improvement in CPU perf in the A10 over the A9.
 

nvgpu

Senior member
Sep 12, 2014
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There goes Qualcomm's hopes of getting back Samsung as a large customer through Snapdragon 820, next Galaxy S & Note will use Exynos.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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There goes Qualcomm's hopes of getting back Samsung as a large customer through Snapdragon 820, next Galaxy S & Note will use Exynos.

I think Samsung may throw Qualcomm a bone here so that Samsung Foundry can benefit from the sales of Snapdragon 820 into other OEMs' designs.

Longer term though, if I were Qualcomm, I'd be working to make sure other Android OEMs gain share against Samsung since not all of them can develop high end SoCs like Samsung can.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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New Snapdragon 820 scores

ST: 2140
MT: 4762

https://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4157755

Compared to the (rumoured) Exynos 8890 scores from a month ago:

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – 2.3GHz
ST 2,294
MT 6,908

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – Power Saving
ST 1,710
MT 4,896

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – Ultra Power Saving
ST 1,100
MT 3,209

Samsung Exynos 7420
ST 1,486
MT 4,970

Apple A9
ST 2,487
MT 4,330

www.sammobile.com/2015/10/06/samsungs-mongoose-soc-benchmarks-leak-shows-incredible-performance
 
Mar 10, 2006
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Compared to the (rumoured) Exynos 8890 scores from a month ago:

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – 2.3GHz
ST 2,294
MT 6,908

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – Power Saving
ST 1,710
MT 4,896

Samsung Exynos 8890 (Mongoose) – Ultra Power Saving
ST 1,100
MT 3,209

Samsung Exynos 7420
ST 1,486
MT 4,970

Apple A9
ST 2,487
MT 4,330

www.sammobile.com/2015/10/06/samsungs-mongoose-soc-benchmarks-leak-shows-incredible-performance

The Exynos 7420 in my SGS6 got around 1498/4860 in GB3. 1.3x these scores gives around 1950/6318. I think these "leaked" scores are inflated.

Also, the iPhone 6s/6s Plus scores you have listed are a tad on the low side; just ran GB3 on my 6s Plus and got 2545/4417
 
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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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You're really a big fan of Samsung, huh?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9330/exynos-7420-deep-dive/5

He saw it in his own test. Samsung managed 40% power reduction on A57 cores going from 20nm to 14nm. Besides which, figures like 30% and 10% are such generic and mundane numbers, so it does not take much to guess where they come from. (*cough* marketing *cough*)

A9 went into production a while ago and has already made it into the hands of millions of customers. By the time 820/Exynos 8890 hit the market, A9 will already be halfway through its life-cycle and
Well, they take turns every year. It has been a never-ending cycle with Apple leading ST and Qualcomm/Samsung leading MT. Apple closed the MT gap with the A9, which makes the A9 an indisputable king at the moment. By all indication Qualcomm/Samsung are poised to take the driver's seat back early next year.

as we'v seen those Twister cores have a lot of clock headroom.
In a 13" tablet.

I think these "leaked" scores are inflated.
I think they are flat-out untrustworthy at this point.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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And it's that time of the year again. The 2016 flagship Exynos 8 Octa SoC is almost here (Exynos 8890) and there's new mid-range versions, including 14nm FinFET Exynos 7870.

Exynos 8 Octa 8890 vs Snapdragon 820 @ Geekbench 3

Geekbench 3 Single-core Score
Snapdragon 820: 2356
Exynos 8890: 2195

Geekbench 3 Multi-core Score
Snapdragon 820: 5489
Exynos 8890: 6486

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/compare/5224098?baseline=5304549

Insane MT performance from Samsung, once again.


Samsung Announces New Exynos 7870 Mid-Range 14nm SoC

Today Samsung announced a new mid-range SoC called the Exynos 7870. The new SKU sports 8x Cortex A53s running at up to 1.6GHz. The GPU should be an ARM Mali T830 although we have no information on core-count or frequencies used. The part extends Samsung's ModAP lineup of SoCs with integrated modems as we see an integrated UE Category 6 modem integrated, delivering up to 300Mbps with FDD-TDD joint carrier aggregation.

More interestingly, is that the new SoC is manufactured on a 14nm FinFET process which promises to reduce power consumption by over 30% over similar SoCs such as the Exynos 7580. Only a few days ago we were discussing our surprise with the introduction of Qualcomm's Snapdragon 625 which is also manufactured in a 14nm LPP process, a great sign for the manufacturing process given that these mid-range parts are very price-sensitive. Samsung discloses that the Exynos 7870 will be in mass production in the first quarter of 2016 so we're essentially very close to device availability in the following months.

www.anandtech.com/show/10045/samsung-announces-new-exynos-7870-midrange-14nm-soc


Galaxy Note 6 to include 6GB of RAM

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/1...m-rgb-display-6gb-of-ram-and-more-details.htm
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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The ss a9 6 tablet uses qcom 652 midrange chipset with a72 on 28nm bm here
http://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a9_2016-review-1380p5.php


The 6gb note 6 is a very interesting development. The first steps towards a notebook replacement?

Cant fint link now but ss have a patent for plugging the mobile phone into a keyboard and screen chassis.

We see the integration of os cross platforms. Vulcan adaption. Hsa.

Looking at 820 and 8890 the performance is a huge step forward and the difference to x86 class core perf is zero for consumers. 2200/6500 is fast...
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
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Process technology is nice and allows for nice things like the big fat frequency boost we saw in A9 over A8/A7, but I seriously doubt that the Twister architecture -- as nice as it is -- represents the pinnacle of what can be done in a 14/16nm class process.

TBH I think a 2.26GHz A9 would have fit the thermal envelope of the iPhone 6s/6s Plus just fine, but I doubt that from a cost/yield perspective Apple could have built millions upon millions of chips that met those specifications on the brand new 14nm LPP/16FF+.

Next year, 16FF+ will be quite mature (and from what I am told it has better electrical characteristics than Samsung 14LPP), so Apple will be able to push the clock speeds up while guaranteeing good yields next year. I also expect Apple didn't hire the mass of world class architects that it did to just coast with the A10, so expect that they will make some interesting architecture improvements as well.

My guess is we will see +10-15% perf/clock ST, introduction of SMT, and some serious work to improve the latency of the L3$ that sits there. All told, I'm betting Apple will claim a 30-40% improvement in CPU perf in the A10 over the A9.
However knowing that TSMC is on 16 nm and is not as good as expecting, I am expecting a nerf from that side... Apple won't have massive improvements unless they adds 16 MB of EdRAM and SMT
 
Mar 10, 2006
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However knowing that TSMC is on 16 nm and is not as good as expecting, I am expecting a nerf from that side... Apple won't have massive improvements unless they adds 16 MB of EdRAM and SMT

You think Apple's paying all of those architects to sit around and say, "well, gee, if we can't stick some eDRAM onto the package and add SMT, we might as well not even bother to make an A10"?
 

Thala

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2014
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Geekbench 3 Single-core Score
Snapdragon 820: 2356
Exynos 8890: 2195

Geekbench 3 Multi-core Score
Snapdragon 820: 5489
Exynos 8890: 6486

Hmm, since Kryo is essentially a Cortex A73 - Mongoose needs to beat it in order to make the investment worthwhile.
 

Nothingness

Platinum Member
Jul 3, 2013
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Hmm, since Kryo is essentially a Cortex A73 - Mongoose needs to beat it in order to make the investment worthwhile.
Not sure what you mean, Qualcomm CPU is their own design not a derivative. Or did you mean performance wise it's only slightly above Cortex-A72?
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
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Well some people get their beefy ipc increase and solid single core cpu score. Perhaps it can come to some rest now.

I think the basic problem now is making use of the power. I seriously doubt any user can tell the difference from the qcom midrange s652 to the new 820/exynos.

If we look at the phaplet Samsungs new A9 that is using the s652 they have capped the 4k video and 60fps. I think thats good old segmentation. 4k and 60fps is probably the only thing a user can perciewe of difference to the highend models.

I think it also marks the first steps of slowing down using new nodes on mobile. Right now Samsung and tsmc is investing tons in 10nm and we are probably there within a year and euv 1-2??

Now there needs to be customers for it. Apple say they can see something new and imo we will see a slowing down. I dont beliewe VR can pull the investments needed to keep this pace with accelerating cost for new nodes.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Did the 8890 copy A9X with 51.8GB/sec memory? I can see the battery is 3600mah for the S7 Edge. My poor old S3 Mini does with 1900mah. iPhone 6S Plus uses 2750mah. The S6 edge had a 2600mah.
 
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el etro

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,581
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Blasting performance from 8890. Top-class ST, pushed the brake on MT. Will be competitive against any chipset on efficiency, plus will make against the Kirin950 the ultimate 16FF+ versus 14LPP showdown.


Another good thing is that Mongoose comes closer to 1K/Ghz GB ST score, a pretty good metric of good enough per clock performance. Only A7/A8/A9, HSW/BDW/SKL, Kryo and maybe Zen surpasses this mark.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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Pushing Samsung 14nm LPP to its limits.

Sammobile said:
The Galaxy S7 and Galaxy S7 edge come with the new Vulcan API for gaming that Android 6.0 introduced to the platform, and Samsung has also built-in quite a few tools and features of its own to improve the gaming experience. Well, the company announced at the Unpacked event that the phones also come with liquid cooling to keep things, well, cool during times of stress in those gaming sessions! That’s impressive and very cool (if you’ll pardon the pun).

Samsung also brought Epic Games on stage to show what the new gaming API will offer for future games, and it announced that the devices will come with a Games Pack that offers $200 worth of free in-game currency for in-app purchases. All in all, Samsung seems bent on showcasing how its new flagships are great at gaming, especially thanks to the increased processor horsepower and Marshmallow’s new gaming libraries.

Galaxy S7 Unreal Engine Demo

I'm impressed. Mali T880MP12 basically matches A9's PowerVR GT7600 @ GFXBench offscreen tests. I bet we will be talking about Samsung's custom GPU this time next year.
 
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