Samsung F4EG/HD204UI 2TB. "(B5) Program Fail Count" S.M.A.R.T Attribute?

[Mark R]

This is probably a 'normal' value. The problem is that no one, except Samsung, knows what this means.

Very few SMART attributes are standardized. A lot are proprietary. In particular, SMART attribute B5 (181) is neither defined officially nor de facto. As a result, it has no user accessible meaning.

However, one thing can be pretty certain - it definitely does NOT mean that your drive is having flash programming failures, because it isn't an SSD. Flash program fail is an SSD specific error, and indicates that the a flash chip has a bad sector. It's unclear where the smartmontools project got this definition from - but it is was probably from an obscure SSD supplier that uses it on their drives.

Second, the SMART 'raw' value is not designed to be human readable. What is more useful is the 'value' (in this case 100&#37. This is designed to be human readable in the form 100= optimal. Lower = worse. The fact that even though the 'raw' value is going up, the 'value' is staying at 100% suggests that the drive isn't bothered about whatever B5 means, but it's just logging it for information.

 

[llmercll]

Thanks a lot for that post Mark, I'm thinking you're absolutely right.

@Sickbeast, I've got my cpu overvolted and overclocked, same goes for my gpu. No messing with the FSB though, only multipliers.

Still looking for data, plese let me know your program fail count if you've got this drive. I've got a few differing numbers from other people already...

0
750,000
20,000
136

add my drives...

500,000
280,000
80,000

It looks like it's less common to have a data value of 0. So yeah, I'm thinking this is fairly normal for these drives.

 

[llmercll]

I found an interesting newegg review.

Pros: Cheap, reviews on newegg seem to be more positive than other drives in this class.

Cons: 5/6 Drives failed Samsung's drive diagnostic tool out of the box.

Other Thoughts: Bought 6 drives together. Ran Samsung's drive diagnostic (ESTOOL v3.01p) on all the drives out of the box and 5/6 drives failed with the same error (Ram Error, Service Code AJ41) after doing a full surface scan even though the error has nothing to do with bad sectors. However, if I skip the surface scan, they all pass the ram test so I'm not sure if this is a bug in ESTOOL or the drives. Still, doesn't really make me feel confident to use these drives. It would be great if someone from Samsung could chime in on the issue. My drives are serial number:

S2H7J1CZ918495
S2H7J1CZ918486
S2H7J1CZ918482
S2H7J1AZA14578
S2H7J1AZA14581
S2H7J1AZA14580

Sounds to me like it might be related to program fail count. I'm going to run ESTool overnight and see what shows up.

 

[CVSiN]

this is consistant with every single Samsung drive Ive ever owned.
I hate them.. its funny to see them recently with such popular drives.
I still refuse to touch them any more.

WD and Seagate for me.

 

[llmercll]

Could you be more specific? I'm interested in what you mean, but don't understand exactly what you're referring to.

 

[flood]

Both of mine died after being powered on for ~4 hours. I can hear them spinning up/down constantly on their own.

 

[llmercll]

tested one, no estool errors =)

 

[llmercll]

No estool errors on any of my drives =)

program fail count shot up to 1.4 million

 

[pakthedude]

I had been reading alot of this issue.

HD Tune Pro 4.60 released on 28th August 2010
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F4 HD204UI was on sale from 1st September 2010

Could it be the HDD is not compatible with HD Tune and the SMART values captured are not correct and the label to B5 might be wrong?

 

[marko121]

I've got three of these fellows installed here, and like yourself, I've been wondering about this ever increasing 'B5' value.

I use aida64 to view the SMART status of the drives, and it reports the field as being <vendor-specific>. As you can see, these drives have not been installed for very long (we're talking a matter of weeks) and B5 is well out of the starting blocks. Attempting to find more information regarding this is what brought me to your thread.

 

[ex.treme]

Bump this. I own SAMSUNG Spinpoint M8 HN-M101MBB 1TB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" and have the same issue. After 32 hours have 368 000 (B5) Program Fail Count.

But main problem is, that 10-20x per minute hard drive do something and make little noise. Looks like parking heads, but just a little different.

Any help how fix it ?

Win XP SP3

 

[taltamir]

Bump this. I own SAMSUNG Spinpoint M8 HN-M101MBB 1TB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" and have the same issue. After 32 hours have 368 000 (B5) Program Fail Count.

But main problem is, that 10-20x per minute hard drive do something and make little noise. Looks like parking heads, but just a little different.

Any help how fix it ?

Win XP SP3

step 1: backup your data
step 2: contact the manufacturer and get a replacement drive under warranty.

 

[code65536]

Both of my Samsung M8 drives (a 500GB and a 750GB) have pretty high B5 values. I think it's probably normal...

And the last time I checked (I recently RMA'ed a Samsung drive and got a peek at their fulfillment queue while I was at it), there is a shortage of 1TB M8's, and there are drives that have been awaiting replacement for a month or so. And if you do RMA the drive, you're going to get a refurb. So don't RMA on a whim; make sure it's necessary before you do it.

 

[ex.treme]

code65536 And do they clicking? Because the ugly clicking i hate....:twisted:

 

[randomised]

I recently contacted Samsung Australia about this issue, as I am also getting some rather high figures for a few of these drives.

According to their response (pasted below; I don't think I'll get in any trouble as it has no NDA/etc.) it's not an indicator of HDD failure so I think it may be safe to ignore this value (save the usual 'backup your data' mantra).

They should be watching this thread atm so no doubt if there are any issues with me posting it I'll know soon enough; otherwise thanks to Kelvin for his response =)

----- Message below -----
Thank you for contacting Samsung Customer Care Australia.

In regards to your enquiry, the &#8220;Program Fail Count&#8221; is a S.M.A.R.T. parameter that indicates the number of flash program failures. It is not a direct indicator of imminent drive failure. A good indicator of possible drive failures would be the &#8220;Bad Sectors&#8221; count. However, we always advise to perform regular back-ups regardless of drive status or condition due to the fact that lost HDD data is not covered under Samsung
warranty.

You may also want to visit the following link (Under Downloads -> Software) and download the &#8220;Diagnostic software, ESTOOL for CD-ROM&#8221;. This tool will allow you to check whether the Samsung Drive is experiencing a fault.

http://www.samsung.com/au/support/de...tPrdDetail.do?
menu=SP01&prd_mdl_cd=HM160HI&srchword=HM160HI

If there is a fault or you require further assistance, please contact us here at Samsung Customer Care on 1300 362 603 and select option 2.

If you have any further enquiries, please do not hesitate to contact Samsung Customer Care on 1300 362 603 or visit our website at http://www.samsung.com.au for further information.

Thank you for choosing Samsung.

Kind Regards,

Kelvin
Samsung Customer Care Australia
http://www.samsung.com.au

 

[taltamir]

I don't think I'll get in any trouble as it has no NDA/etc

when someone gives you a message and writes "this is under NDA / secret / private / illegal to share" they are lying to you.

There is no legal veracity to such a claim. The only way you can be legally forbidden from sharing it is if you SIGN an NDA where you give away your right to make it public.

 

[randomised]

There is no legal veracity to such a claim. The only way you can be legally forbidden from sharing it is if you SIGN an NDA where you give away your right to make it public.

Sounds about right, I don't think Australia is that far backward to have otherwise (ie all correspondence is considered private unless specified otherwise). :ninja:

Thanks, hopefully other people read the above response from Samsung and are able to breathe a collective sigh of relief.

 

[Mark R]

I recently contacted Samsung Australia about this issue, as I am also getting some rather high figures for a few of these drives.

According to their response (pasted below; I don't think I'll get in any trouble as it has no NDA/etc.) it's not an indicator of HDD failure so I think it may be safe to ignore this value (save the usual 'backup your data' mantra).

They should be watching this thread atm so no doubt if there are any issues with me posting it I'll know soon enough; otherwise thanks to Kelvin for his response =)

LOL at the response!

That response from Samsung is pure and unadulterated BS (*) from someone who has simply not understood the problem.

The field does NOT mean that the drive has had flash program failures. It can't possibly mean that, because the drive isn't an SSD! (I'm assuming that you contacted them about an HDD, not an SSD).

(*) - the advice about backing up is sound, and the advice to relax, because B5 is not a marker of imminent drive malfunction is also fine

 

[randomised]

Yes I did attempt to get information on that SMART value/property for an HDD (not an SSD).