Samsung Nintendo AMD semicustom ARM-x86 Showdown Scenario

[ARMD Supremacy]

AMD official Kumar was covered in a conference several days ago and reported that the company was increasing focus on server chips and semicustom [sc] business with new major customers. He further indicated new contracts with customers were for products that would generate over billion dollars plus and one was for ARM and the other was for beyond gaming market.

http://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2398263/amd-pins-its-hopes-on-arm-servers-and-custom-semi-design

First with sc ARM has many expecting is for Nintendo low cost mobile or gaming console product, but the sc x86 was more mysterious. After thinking about news reports that Samsung was all ready with HBM stack memory manufacture and had a history with sc AMD x86, it points to the direction that they will be the next major customer.

Having Samsung as a sc x86 customer for a product that was intended for hundreds of millions and even over billion revenue would be thought pretty good, but there could be very dynamic x86 scenario that sweeps the industry.

This based on several points :

• Samsung is world's largest consumer electronic company

• Known for vertical integration with capabilities to fab CPUs, memory and other analog digital chips

• Advanced fabs proximity Intel level with 14nm Exynos chips now in mass production

• Partners with Global Foundries

• Was partner with HMC memory consort but behind the scenes readied for AMD Hynix HBM

With unprecedented level of vertical integration, a sc x86 designed with Samsung/GF 14nm fab production would create a consumer electronics or mobile semimobile PCs that turns x86 industry upside down. Even more so since Samsung has HBM manufacture ready for unmatchable performance by any other competitor!

It is also possible that numbers of other companies may this path -- another company could be Apple. But with these type of companies, there will be a next generation of x86 products that change the world.

 

[geoxile]

Assuming the other unnamed semicustom is x86, I imagine it will probably be for a server client.

I honestly think Apple is a more likely semi-custom customer than Samsung. Samsung already exited the laptop business, so there's not much reason to get a x86 semicustom. Apple, I don't really see it unless they're expecting AMD's Zen core to be powerful and crazy efficient, but still more likely than Samsung at least. They have more than enough money, and more importantly, they have the infrastructure to justify commissioning a semi-custom chip.

 

[turtile]

I doubt Samsung will use x86 for a custom project. Their new OS is likely built only for ARM. I'd assume they'd want to use it on further projects and keep the hardware in house.

 

[mrmt]

Apple, I don't really see it unless they're expecting AMD's Zen core to be powerful and crazy efficient, but still more likely than Samsung at least.

There's nothing pointing out for a powerful core, except wishes from AMD fans on internet forums. Everything else points to smaller, weaker cores.

 

[Idontcare]

I doubt Samsung will use x86 for a custom project. Their new OS is likely built only for ARM. I'd assume they'd want to use it on further projects and keep the hardware in house.

I would have agreed with you up until the point in time that GloFo licensed Samsung's 14nm process tech.

With that business venture in place, doing business with AMD (fabbed in GF) is tantamount to doing internal business at that point. Sure it isn't 100 cents on the dollar, but its probably 60 cents on the dollar which is better than zero cents on the dollar.

 

[Nothingness]

There's nothing pointing out for a powerful core, except wishes from AMD fans on internet forums. Everything else points to smaller, weaker cores.

"Everything else" being?

 

[ShintaiDK]

"Everything else" being?

Manpower, R&D budget, targetted segment, ROI.

What you expect? Miracles?

Not to mention sole fact that Zen is the ugly sister compared to the K12 ARM part that gets much more focus.

 

[Nothingness]

Manpower, R&D budget, targetted segment, ROI.

What you expect? Miracles?

I don't expect anything from AMD, and haven't for years be that on the CPU or the GPU front. I just expect that people back their claims.

mrmt makes it sound like it's only AMD fans that claim Zen is high-perf, but AMD seems to be doing that too. His "everything else" could very well be AMD haters, there are many of them and their claims are not more interesting than those made by AMD fans.

Not to mention sole fact that Zen is the ugly sister compared to the K12 ARM part that gets much more focus.

I was wrongly assuming that Zen covered both ARM and x86 variants.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I don't expect anything from AMD, and haven't for years be that on the CPU or the GPU front. I just expect that people back their claims.

mrmt makes it sound like it's only AMD fans that claim Zen is high-perf, but AMD seems to be doing that too. His "everything else" could very well be AMD haters, there are many of them and their claims are not more interesting than those made by AMD fans.


I was wrongly assuming that Zen covered both ARM and x86 variants.

Zen=x86
K12=ARM

AMD doesnt say in relation to what and on what terms.
On this forum however, the high performance expectation is quite fixed.

Phenom was also a Core killer. Even AMDs slides said so with +50% performance. Bulldozer, do we even have to go there?

AMDs own segment target for Zen and K12:
Dense Server
Embedded
Semi-Custom
Ultra-Low Power Client

http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7990/Screen Shot 2014-05-05 at 11.25.47 AM.png

And AMDs R&D budget havent been lower in over 10 years. Yet they have more products than ever to develop.

 

[mrmt]

"Everything else" being?

The shrinking R&D budget, the big semi-custom business, the focus on microservers, the sister ARM core, the focus on low power notebooks, and that's just the most evident factors.

 

[mrmt]

I would have agreed with you up until the point in time that GloFo licensed Samsung's 14nm process tech.

With that business venture in place, doing business with AMD (fabbed in GF) is tantamount to doing internal business at that point. Sure it isn't 100 cents on the dollar, but its probably 60 cents on the dollar which is better than zero cents on the dollar.

But for how long does Samsung see this partnership with Globalfoundries lasting beyond the four years everyone is projecting? Globalfoundries certainly doesn't aim to stick with Samsung beyond 10nm, otherwise they are done for.

 

[Idontcare]

mrmt makes it sound like it's only AMD fans that claim Zen is high-perf, but AMD seems to be doing that too.

To be fair, surely you can agree that of anyone who might be an AMD fan it would include AMD (employees) as well?

Can you imagine the scenario in which the AMD fanpeople are more enthusiastic and optimistic than the AMD employees themselves?

 

[Nothingness]

To be fair, surely you can agree that of anyone who might be an AMD fan it would include AMD (employees) as well?

Fanboys and haters are often so brain dead that they disseminate completely wrong and/or made up news. Employees have to be more careful.

Can you imagine the scenario in which the AMD fanpeople are more enthusiastic and optimistic than the AMD employees themselves?

My experience is that employees can be hard with their company. I guess you meant marketing people

Regarding the Zen case, mrmt comment sounded like all sources say AMD is doing a small core. That's not the case. Will it be slow? Perhaps, but that was not the point of my question. He has since clarified his point of view.

 

[ComplexEntity]

To be fair, surely you can agree that of anyone who might be an AMD fan it would include AMD (employees) as well?

Can you imagine the scenario in which the AMD fanpeople are more enthusiastic and optimistic than the AMD employees themselves?

Sure. Something called "Reverse Hyperthreading". It was such a craze in the fans community during the time (in hope to surpass the performance crown of Core 2 Duo), but nonetheless it is not technically possible.

Arstechnica did a brief article about it and refused to go deeper for obvious reasons
http://arstechnica.com/uncategorized/2006/07/7263-2/

Of course, Intel fans had its own share of the same attitude during the P4 era, example: Tejas

 

[frozentundra123456]

To be fair, surely you can agree that of anyone who might be an AMD fan it would include AMD (employees) as well?

Can you imagine the scenario in which the AMD fanpeople are more enthusiastic and optimistic than the AMD employees themselves?

In these forums, I certainly can. In fact those who actually work for the company could well have a more realistic expectation of AMD than some on these forums.

Edit: I am not really sure some of the extreme fans (from both camps) even believe themselves some of the things they are posting. More like if you say something often enough it will come true.

 

[turtile]

I would have agreed with you up until the point in time that GloFo licensed Samsung's 14nm process tech.

With that business venture in place, doing business with AMD (fabbed in GF) is tantamount to doing internal business at that point. Sure it isn't 100 cents on the dollar, but its probably 60 cents on the dollar which is better than zero cents on the dollar.

I can see them licensing the GPU though (if AMD allows without purchasing the total package).

 

[geoxile]

Given what we learned about A72's projected performance I doubt Zen will be low power.

A72 is aimed at phones and tablets. Despite being low power dense server and thin client should have the capacity for higher power. Even if it's low power, I doubt it will be small, more likely large core on a low-power process, possibly using HDL.

 

[artivix]

I can see them licensing the GPU though (if AMD allows without purchasing the total package).

In the graphics forum, just today Mediatek was reported to license AMD graphics IP.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2423897

The combination of AMD x86, ARM and next gen multi-platform APIs like Vulkan would make for very interesting times ahead.

 

[frozentundra123456]

I am at work and dont have time to look it up, but this 1 billion in future contracts is old new is it not? I believe it was even discussed already in these forums.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Samsung is world's largest consumer electronic company

• Known for vertical integration with capabilities to fab CPUs, memory and other analog digital chips

• Advanced fabs proximity Intel level with 14nm Exynos chips now in mass production

• Partners with Global Foundries

• Was partner with HMC memory consort but behind the scenes readied for AMD Hynix HBM

Perhaps Samsung wants to build their own console " Galaxy Game"
It could be anything or, well nothing at all

 

[turtile]

In the graphics forum, just today Mediatek was reported to license AMD graphics IP.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2423897

The combination of AMD x86, ARM and next gen multi-platform APIs like Vulkan would make for very interesting times ahead.

I wonder if they are developing the next generation GPU for mobile (coming out in 2016).

 

[mrmt]

mrmt makes it sound like it's only AMD fans that claim Zen is high-perf, but AMD seems to be doing that too. His "everything else" could very well be AMD haters, there are many of them and their claims are not more interesting than those made by AMD fans.

Regarding AMD I prefer to watch the signs, as the management in general isn't really forthcoming regarding their performance forecasts, and that's on their good days, there's plenty of examples of their management team deliberately spreading false information. So while AMD is saying that Zen is "high performance", they do not say what high performance is, so I prefer to stick with the evidence at hand, which points to small size, low performance, cost effective core.

And to say the truth I expect it to actually be a good product, but not a good product on the consumer market, but on the semi-custom market. I expect AMD to close down its consumer shop rather sooner than later.

 

[Nothingness]

@mrmt, thanks for explaining your point of view, I better understand now

I wonder how their ARM adventure will go...

 

[Headfoot]

I'm pretty sure the quote about a new ARM licensee for the semicustom business is Mediatek licensing Radeon graphics IP.

The link in the op quotes Lu as saying: "One of the products is ARM. And the last thing I'll say is we are looking at our semicustom business as going beyond gaming"

Sounds like at least one of the new semicustom customers is Mediatek.

 

[Burpo]

.. it points to the direction that they will be the next major customer.

..there could be very dynamic x86 scenario that sweeps the industry.

Samsung has HBM manufacture ready for unmatchable performance by any other competitor!

.. there will be a next generation of x86 products that change the world..

Dude, where do you get your pot from?