Samsung SM951 finally unveiled! (2,150MB/s & 1,550MB/s)

[Mojoed]

http://techgage.com/news/samsung-un...based-m-2-ssd-delivering-speeds-of-over-2gbs/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/08/samsungs_small_screamer/

PCIe 3.0 x4
NVMe support
2,150MBs/1,550MBs
This excites me.

There were articles about this drive as early as last July. It looks like the successor to the XP941 is finally in mass production although most likely initially available as OEM only.

Anyone sporting an x99 setup looking forward to buying this bad boy? With prices for the XP941 hovering around $1/GB, I expect the SM951 to launch somewhat higher. I'm hoping 2015 is finally the year where we will also see more competition in the PCIe SSD market. It would be nice to see prices drop.

Anyone planning on snagging one of these things?

EDIT: Nice catch Fernando 1. It looks like there will be no NVMe support. See below post.

 

[ocer9999]

Is this similar to the OCZ Z-Drive 6000? If yes, how much are both of these going to be?

http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-n...ress-controller-and-new-ssds-ces-2015-update/

 

[Fernando 1]

PCIe 3.0 x4
NVMe support
2,150MBs/1,550MBs
This excites me.

According to my informations it doesn't come with NVMe support.
Samsung has announced this feature for a later M.2 PCIe SSD.

 

[Mojoed]

From the first link:

"...a tiny svelte form-factor isn’t the only surprise either, the SM951 has a few more. The biggest is the inclusion of NVMe support, a protocol specifically designed for SSDs that replaces the de facto AHCI used today. Amongst other things, it promises to lower both CPU overhead and processing latency by 1/3rd of that needed by AHCI"

Unless something has changed since the official announcement a few days ago, I believe the SM951 will indeed support NVMe.

 

[Hellhammer]

From the first link:

"...a tiny svelte form-factor isn’t the only surprise either, the SM951 has a few more. The biggest is the inclusion of NVMe support, a protocol specifically designed for SSDs that replaces the de facto AHCI used today. Amongst other things, it promises to lower both CPU overhead and processing latency by 1/3rd of that needed by AHCI"

Unless something has changed since the official announcement a few days ago, I believe the SM951 will indeed support NVMe.

The official press release does not mention NVMe support for the SM951.

With its SM951 and other Samsung PCIe SSDs using a 10-nanometer class** MLC NAND flash production platform, Samsung believes it is in an excellent position to rapidly expand the global PCIe SSD market. Samsung will also work on timely introduction of next-generation PCIe SSDs that support the NVMe*** interface, which will provide even further performance increases.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ucing-Extremely-Fast-Low-powered#.VLN9k1a0wds

I'm waiting to hear back from Samsung to see what this actually means since the SM951 was supposed to support NVMe.

 

[Mojoed]

The official press release does not mention NVMe support for the SM951.

With its SM951 and other Samsung PCIe SSDs using a 10-nanometer class** MLC NAND flash production platform, Samsung believes it is in an excellent position to rapidly expand the global PCIe SSD market. Samsung will also work on timely introduction of next-generation PCIe SSDs that support the NVMe*** interface, which will provide even further performance increases.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...ucing-Extremely-Fast-Low-powered#.VLN9k1a0wds

I'm waiting to hear back from Samsung to see what this actually means since the SM951 was supposed to support NVMe.

Nice catch! Really hoping this is just a marketing mix up. I'm afraid this drive without NVMe would eat up noticeable CPU cycles during large reads/writes.

 

[soccerballtux]

so I can be unproductive faster.

 

[Hellhammer]

Nice catch! Really hoping this is just a marketing mix up. I'm afraid this drive without NVMe would eat up noticeable CPU cycles during large reads/writes.

I know for a fact that it's not NVMe compatible right now. The real question is whether NVMe can be enabled through a firmware update or if it will require a different controller. Should hear back within the next days -- I discussed this already at CES when I met Samsung but the details weren't so clear at that point.

 

[Mojoed]

Oh well, it looks like it's official. No NVMe support for the SM951.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8865/samsung-launches-sm951-m2-pcie-30-x4-ssd-for-oemssis

I'm really looking forward to Skylake. It appears that is the platform where we will finally see NVMe blossom.

Anyone care to speculate about the CPU utilization the SM951 will require under heavy loads now that we know this is an AHCI drive?

 

[ctk1981]

I want to see some of these new m.2 drives get released in a retail setting and work properly under samsung magician software. I have no plans to upgrade to windows 8.1 either so trim working under windows 7 would be nice. And when we do finally get a NVMe drive I hope they release proper drivers for windows 7 also.

All griping aside, I'll be looking into the SM951 to use as a cache ssd.

 

[stuff_me_good]

Oh well, it looks like it's official. No NVMe support for the SM951.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8865/samsung-launches-sm951-m2-pcie-30-x4-ssd-for-oemssis

I'm really looking forward to Skylake. It appears that is the platform where we will finally see NVMe blossom.

Anyone care to speculate about the CPU utilization the SM951 will require under heavy loads now that we know this is an AHCI drive?

On the anandtech news it says hasswell and broadwell is not designed for NVMe, but doesn't clarify what exactly that mean?

If you have PCI-E port, how on earth do you need to have any other support than software support for that? It's not like PCI-E need to have support for every other thing it can take in. It's just fast connector and you need to design what ever you want in to support it, not the other way around.

 

[Hellhammer]

On the anandtech news it says hasswell and broadwell is not designed for NVMe, but doesn't clarify what exactly that mean?

If you have PCI-E port, how on earth do you need to have any other support than software support for that? It's not like PCI-E need to have support for every other thing it can take in. It's just fast connector and you need to design what ever you want in to support it, not the other way around.

Booting from PCIe/NVMe enabled devices requires specific UEFI/BIOS keys that are not part of the stock versions. Right now it's up to the motherboard OEMs to modify their UEFI for each drive, but with Skylake the platform should include native support PCIe booting without any extra drivers/hacks.

 

[R0H1T]

Booting from PCIe/NVMe enabled devices requires specific UEFI/BIOS keys that are not part of the stock versions. Right now it's up to the motherboard OEMs to modify their UEFI for each drive, but with Skylake the platform should include native support PCIe booting without any extra drivers/hacks.

So what about mobos that support booting from PCIe or Ultra M.2 drives, like the z97 extreme9 or extreme6 ?

 

[Hellhammer]

So what about mobos that support booting from PCIe or Ultra M.2 drives, like the z97 extreme9 or extreme6 ?

That support is likely limited to the XP941 because all drives require their own UEFI key to enable booting.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

That support is likely limited to the XP941 because all drives require their own UEFI key to enable booting.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Next newest BIOS version (1.60) states "add NVMe support".

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97 Extreme6/?cat=Download&os=BIOS

 

[R0H1T]

That support is likely limited to the XP941 because all drives require their own UEFI key to enable booting.

Well Asrock is adding NVMe support to pretty much their entire lineup of x97 based mobos, so not sure why the 951 wouldn't get that. But as you said it looks lot more complicated with a certain UEFI key needed for each separate drive btw does it mean that the same UEFI key (for XP951) cannot be added to all the Asrock mobos, I mean something like a single key for all H97 ones & the same for Z97 boards, obviously with hardware specific modifications?

 

[Hellhammer]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Next newest BIOS version (1.60) states "add NVMe support".

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97 Extreme6/?cat=Download&os=BIOS

The SM951 isn't compatible with NVMe. It's obviously possible to add all sorts of features, but the problem is that until there is native support in the chipset/UEFI itself, it's a niche market. In the end, the majority of SSDs are sold to OEMs, which are hesitant to do any additional investments (i.e. code a specific BIOS). That's why all SSD OEMs are pretty much waiting for Skylake that will finally treat PCIe and NVMe SSDs as first class citizens.

Well Asrock is adding NVMe support to pretty much their entire lineup of x97 based mobos, so not sure why the 951 wouldn't get that. But as you said it looks lot more complicated with a certain UEFI key needed for each separate drive btw does it mean that the same UEFI key (for XP951) cannot be added to all the Asrock mobos, I mean something like a single key for all H97 ones & the same for Z97 boards, obviously with hardware specific modifications?

I'm pretty sure the boot support key is more than just a single line of code that can be copy-pasted between different models and BIOSes.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm pretty sure the boot support key is more than just a single line of code that can be copy-pasted between different models and BIOSes.

That's why I said that hardware or motherboard specific modifications should be enough to make a UEFI key work on the same chipset (H97/Z97) of the same brand, like Asrock, so long as the drive has NVMe support & the mobo does too.

Anyway as far as I'm concerned this is too much ado over a minor (yup 2x is still meh :biggrin speed bump, I'm happy with RAID0 SSD's for now till the time NVMe SSD prices take a nosedive.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The SM951 isn't compatible with NVMe. It's obviously possible to add all sorts of features, but the problem is that until there is native support in the chipset/UEFI itself, it's a niche market. In the end, the majority of SSDs are sold to OEMs, which are hesitant to do any additional investments (i.e. code a specific BIOS). That's why all SSD OEMs are pretty much waiting for Skylake that will finally treat PCIe and NVMe SSDs as first class citizens.

I was aware the SM951 is an AHCI drive. But the reason you can't boot from either the XP941 or SM951 has nothing to do with either AHCI nor NVMe. Its because these drives do not provide their own OROM. The BIOS/UEFI has to have support for these drives built-in to be able to boot from them.

Compare with f.x. the Plextor M6E (a PCIe x2 adaptor with an M.2 SSD on), which provides its own OROM and can boot on any mainboard.

 

[Aibohphobia]

I was aware the SM951 is an AHCI drive. But the reason you can't boot from either the XP941 or SM951 has nothing to do with either AHCI nor NVMe. Its because these drives do not provide their own OROM. The BIOS/UEFI has to have support for these drives built-in to be able to boot from them.

Compare with f.x. the Plextor M6E (a PCIe x2 adaptor with an M.2 SSD on), which provides its own OROM and can boot on any mainboard.

I'm curious about this, I got one of the SM951s that were pulled from some Lenovo laptop off eBay and it booted just fine in the M.2 slot of the Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5.

Problem is, that slot is only 2.0 x2 so I got the Bplus M.2 to PCIe adapter to get the full speed but it would not boot at all in the adapter.

Windows installed just fine, and the Windows installation on another SSD could see it as a secondary drive but it did not show up at all in the BIOS.

I was under the impression that the adapter was transparent to the motherboard and OS, so since it could boot in the M.2 slot I don't understand why it couldn't in the adapter.

 

[kenshinco]

Try Asus hyper m.2 x4 card. The card that comes with asus x99 deluxe. But you can buy it on ebay.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I'm curious about this, I got one of the SM951s that were pulled from some Lenovo laptop off eBay and it booted just fine in the M.2 slot of the Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5.

Since the XP941/SM951 are relatively popular and not that difficult to obtain, Gigabytes UEFI properly includes support.

Problem is, that slot is only 2.0 x2 so I got the Bplus M.2 to PCIe adapter to get the full speed but it would not boot at all in the adapter.

Windows installed just fine, and the Windows installation on another SSD could see it as a secondary drive but it did not show up at all in the BIOS.

I was under the impression that the adapter was transparent to the motherboard and OS, so since it could boot in the M.2 slot I don't understand why it couldn't in the adapter.

No idea. An M.2 to PCIe adaptor should be completely transparent. You did use one of the PCIe slots coming of the PCH, right? I'm not sure it would work with one from the CPU, mainboards can be quite picky with what you can use in the PCIe slots from the CPU. Usually its more-or-less limited to graphics cards.

 

[Shmee]

About how much would the sm951 be bottlenecked by ACHI?

 

[Aibohphobia]

Since the XP941/SM951 are relatively popular and not that difficult to obtain, Gigabytes UEFI properly includes support.

The XP941 certainly but I wouldn't say the SM951 is easily available. The ones currently available are being pulled from some Lenovo laptop.

No idea. An M.2 to PCIe adaptor should be completely transparent. You did use one of the PCIe slots coming of the PCH, right? I'm not sure it would work with one from the CPU, mainboards can be quite picky with what you can use in the PCIe slots from the CPU. Usually its more-or-less limited to graphics cards.

This may be the issue, it's X99 so I was using it in a slot with lanes from the CPU, the only PCIe slot on this board from the PCH is x1 so that's even worse than the M.2.

About how much would the sm951 be bottlenecked by ACHI?

I'm not sure since I couldn't run it in NVMe, but I ran some tests in AHCI. This is with the drive in the adapter as a secondary drive so it's running at x4.

It seems limited to 2.0, but I'm not sure if it's the drive or the adapter. I ended up selling the drive since I couldn't boot to it in my board and the guy I sold it to had the MSI X99S Gaming 7. I installed the drive in the M.2 slot on that board and it should have been running at 3.0 x4, the switch in the BIOS was set to PCIe and there was only one video card installed but I got about the same numbers.

My guess is that the SM951 drives currently floating around on eBay are PCIe 2.0 drives.

 

[RamCity]

The XP941 certainly but I wouldn't say the SM951 is easily available. The ones currently available are being pulled from some Lenovo laptop.

This may be the issue, it's X99 so I was using it in a slot with lanes from the CPU, the only PCIe slot on this board from the PCH is x1 so that's even worse than the M.2.

I'm not sure since I couldn't run it in NVMe, but I ran some tests in AHCI. This is with the drive in the adapter as a secondary drive so it's running at x4.

It seems limited to 2.0, but I'm not sure if it's the drive or the adapter. I ended up selling the drive since I couldn't boot to it in my board and the guy I sold it to had the MSI X99S Gaming 7. I installed the drive in the M.2 slot on that board and it should have been running at 3.0 x4, the switch in the BIOS was set to PCIe and there was only one video card installed but I got about the same numbers.

My guess is that the SM951 drives currently floating around on eBay are PCIe 2.0 drives.

Mind if I ask which specific M.2 to PCIe adapter you were using? It seems odd that in this scenario the SM951 wouldn't run faster, unless you were using a PCIe 2.0 adapter.

If it it is Bplus brand, then that might explain it as they are PCIe 2.0 . The Lycom DT-120 is PCIe 3.0 and should allow the SM951 to run faster, but yet to be tested.

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Rod Bland - vendor rep for RamCity.com.au