Samsung: We can get to 5 nm without "any major technical difficulties"

[Fjodor2001]

Mobile computers like notebooks and computers have keyboards and mouse, and you can put a bluetooth keyboard on your tablet. You can also send the video signal from your tablet to a big screen, and with notebooks or convertibles you can just plug the thing on the big monitor.

Yeah, but then it's no longer a pure tablet, nor does it have the convenience and mobility of it. If you're going to carry around a 24" screen and a full size keyboard and mouse anyway, the whole point of it is lost.

 

[cbn]

Most corporate applications today run comfortably on notebook computers, and in two generations we will be able to say the same on tablet computers. If you can have your computer in your backpack or in your drawer, why bother with a cumbersome desktop?

In several years if ARM makes inroads, having a powerful desktop might be cheap enough that folks use both types of computers.....not one in lieu of the other.

 

[mrmt]

In several years if ARM makes inroads, having a powerful desktop might be cheap enough that folks use both types of computers.....not one in lieu of the other.

Why would someone want a desktop if a notebook does the trick? Don't mention keyboard, mouse or big monitor, as you can have these with a notebook as well.

 

[cbn]

Why would someone want a desktop if a notebook does the trick? Don't mention keyboard, mouse or big monitor, as you can have these with a notebook as well.

I think one issue would be price and performance of the competing form factors. Why have just one computer when the price of xtors drops with every node?

 

[mrmt]

I think one issue would be price and performance (cheap, fast, battery life <---pick 2 out 3). This, in addition, to form factor.

Besides, why have only one specialized computer when the point in time comes when having two specialized computers is extremely affordable?

Notebooks aren't specialized computers. Go outside of the gamer/workstation world and they can do pretty much everything that a desktop can. So the question isn't why have a specialized computer, but why buy a second static computer does the same thing your mobile computer does.

 

[jdubs03]

Notebooks aren't specialized computers. Go outside of the gamer/workstation world and they can do pretty much everything that a desktop can. So the question isn't why have a specialized computer, but why buy a second static computer does the same thing your mobile computer does.

The only realm I see desktops making sense are for people as you say that are gamers and to a lesser extent those with workstations (on average). With a docking station one can hook up a laptop to two monitors (or more), and have enough performance to do 95% of normal tasks. If Skylake focuses a bit more on performance than this point is emphasized further.

But there must still be enough use cases for desktops; for instance someone with an home office could like the ability to have a desktop there but have a synced laptop on the go.

 

[Arachnotronic]

My primary work and play machines are desktops with large screens. I use a laptop when I'm traveling, but I'm far more productive on fast desktops with large screen(s) than on the laptop.

 

[cbn]

Notebooks aren't specialized computers. Go outside of the gamer/workstation world and they can do pretty much everything that a desktop can. So the question isn't why have a specialized computer, but why buy a second static computer does the same thing your mobile computer does.

Yes, Some people will never need or want to use beyond "X amount of computing". Maybe this even becomes a small phone that docks to various displays and inputs.

But as price per xtor drops and new ARM CPU designs enter the market, I think we are going to see some buyers go for extra power. And one set of these buyers will likely get younger and younger as the price drops. (Hopefully using the compute for creative endeavors rather than purely gaming).

Like I mentioned earlier in thread, it just depends on how cheaply ARM can get there. (At the CPU design level and the process tech level).

 

[mrmt]

My primary work and play machines are desktops with large screens. I use a laptop when I'm traveling, but I'm far more productive on fast desktops with large screen(s) than on the laptop.

I have a desktop at home but it's basically for the small gaming I do these days and to stream music/video to the other computers at home. For work I have a notebook with a docking station and two big screens, at home I have a dock station with a big screen. Basically I don't miss desktops for work, and so does my wife and the rest of my family. I'm the last one with a desktop.

 

[mrmt]

But as price per xtor drops and new ARM CPU designs enter the market, I think we are going to see some buyers go for extra power. And one set of these buyers will likely get younger and younger as the price drops. (Hopefully using the compute for creative endeavors rather than purely gaming).

I think you are missing the point: Why should you buy a desktop if you don't game or don't do heavy workstation lifting? Why should you have another computer at all if your notebook has all the computing power you need (and does not have wires, and does not get dust, and does not needs a desk all for itself)? Those are the questions the industry has been making and cannot find an answer except "you shouldn't, let me sell you a notebook instead".

 

[cbn]

I think you are missing the point: Why should you buy a desktop if you don't game or don't do heavy workstation lifting? Why should you have another computer at all if your notebook has all the computing power you need (and does not have wires, and does not get dust, and does not needs a desk all for itself)?

How expensive is this laptop you are referring to?

Those are the questions the industry has been making and cannot find an answer except "you shouldn't, let me sell you a notebook instead".

We also have to remember the industry has been basically dealing with one very strong desktop supplier (Intel). And desktop price to performance ratio has been static for years now.

I can only imagine what would happen if the price for a powerful desktop CPU actually starting dropping every year. This, in contrast, to what we have seen with Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7 desktop prices over the last 4+ years.

 

[gdansk]

They know what they're doing better than us. The people at ISSC would tear them apart if their presentations were trash. Intel said approximately the same (sub 7nm is hard). If you click through to the source (in Japanese), Kim said that after 5nm EUV or other similar enablers are mandatory whereas Intel said EUV was probably not strictly necessary at a similar point (if they switched to a different material).

 

[ehume]

My work machine is a laptop. I keep it in a drawer with a mouse and a full-sized keyboard. When I am not there, other people use the office -- which accounts for the need for portability. When I start work I go unlock the drawer and take out the stuff. I tried using the laptop's keyboard. Ugh! Even a 15-inch Dell has a keyboard that limits my productivity. And a trackpad? A mouse soundly beats it. So I use the laptop for its computing power and its display, and nought else.

So, if you don't have to share your workspace with people you can't trust to have access to your computer, or if you don't have to carry your computer with you as you move from place to place, you might as well have a tower or an AiO. No matter how you cut it, laptop keyboards and trackpads are lousy for productivity. That might explain why, as I look around, nobody but me has a laptop. They all have boxes, full keyboards and mice.

 

[cbn]

Regarding the mobile vs. desktop argument, maybe we will see something like the following emerge:

1. For heavier mobile office users: One premium priced (<---In a relative sense) laptop for both mobile work and home/office

2. For lighter mobile office users: Re-usable lapdock for mobile work (using phone for compute) and an inexpensive, yet powerful desktop for home/office

I'm thinking #2 would actually be lower cost.